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A lamb's meltdown on the NYE performance

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10 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I can even say Miley is the worst singer on the planet and my point would still stand, but sadly you don't have the gift of being able to follow context. Go back to school

Your point was they are better at singing. So.

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2 minutes ago, light741 said:

Your point was they are better at singing. So.

Nope, let me make it real simple for you

Mariah Carey - people want to see vocal excellence 

Mariah Carey now - can't provide people vocal excellence 

Personal conclusion : she's no longer special and in my eyes, useless as a performer.

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16 minutes ago, light741 said:

 And saying Mariah can't sing anymore is just a lie.

But saying she's flawed to the point of not being able to deliver a solid performance is a reasonable statement that can be backed up with solid arguments, which I have done and which you have ignored bey5 Do I have to bring up Nicole Scherzinger again?

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2 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

Thanks jj3 

It's true tho nat2 Me and @Jjang are being illegitimized for things that have nothing to do with our main arguments: the fact that we stan for Madonna and the fact that we think Miley and Demi are capable singers um2 All our other arguments are being ignored, or I'll just speak for myself: my main conversation partner always jumps back to the "but Jjang said that Demi and Miley left no room for Mariah!!!!" argument as if I hadn't even said anything in my latest reply to him xtina4

I just think Mariah's voice is fatally flawed and bad enough for her to consider retiring, and that's imo a very simple opinion to have, and I fully agree with Jjang's simple way of stating things:

Mariah Carey - people want to see vocal excellence 

Mariah Carey now - can't provide people vocal excellence 

Personal conclusion : she's no longer special and in my eyes, useless as a performer.

aretha1

It's kind of horrifying how this convo has been dragged out this long because someone couldn't just accept this very simple opinion.

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44 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

But saying she's flawed to the point of not being able to deliver a solid performance is a reasonable statement that can be backed up with solid arguments, which I have done and which you have ignored bey5 Do I have to bring up Nicole Scherzinger again?

After saying singers with more flaws have more of a right to be around like the other user said. I don't think he has a point there. And current Mariah certaintly can give solid vocals. Can she still sing in tune?. Yes. Can she still produce resonance in her notes?. Yes. The better question is why her flaws matter so much to certain people while they give others a pass.

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8 minutes ago, light741 said:

After saying singers with more flaws have more of a right to be around like the other user said. I don't think he has a point there. 

OMG CAN YOU FUCKING STOP REPEATING THAT BS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

8 minutes ago, light741 said:

And current Mariah certaintly can give solid vocals. Can she still sing in tune?. Yes. Can she still produce resonance in her notes?. Yes. The better question is why her flaws matter so much to certain people while they give others a pass.

Solid is not excellent. And I already discussed the rest so many damn times, girl omg ayumi1 People give passes to others because they're not supposed to be fantastic vocalists, they're supposed to be pop entertainers um2 And that's why I posted Nicole Scherzinger's PERFECT performance that showcases expert vocal technique to show that I can absolutely point to current singers who can easily outdo Mariah, supposedly one of the biggest vocal icons of our time — that's her brand and she can't even get through one verse without covering up all her mistakes with equally flawed vocal runs sha1 That's a problem for me, why should I give her a pass for that omg it's like saying well I went to the opera and this lead vocalist ruined all the highlights but hey, other singers are worse like wtf, no, it wasn't a good vocal performance and it was supposed to be excellent the end.

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18 minutes ago, light741 said:

After saying singers with more flaws have more of a right to be around like the other user said. I don't think he has a point there. And current Mariah certaintly can give solid vocals. Can she still sing in tune?. Yes. Can she still produce resonance in her notes?. Yes. The better question is why her flaws matter so much to certain people while they give others a pass.

Mariah is not excellent 

People want to see excellent

1+1

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Just now, Urbanov said:

You have used them as an example, not me, so be somehow responsible for what you've said tyvm.

But don't play the victim card now when you already slammed me for apparently being delusional a few pages ago.

Point is, even if Mariah was a better singer than Miley (which I disagree on) my point still stands. that Mariah can not provide what is expected of her anymore. Now please, reply to that. Let me repeat again, reply to this :

" Mariah can not provide what is expected of her anymore."

By the way I have a question for you

Can you reply to this?

" Mariah can not provide what is expected of her anymore."

 

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10 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

What have I said though? You act like I have insulted you for a lifetime by calling you a Madonna stan or what? jj4 

I just don't get why you're jumping in victim mode now all of a sudden just because I pointed out that our main arguments aren't being addressed in favor of some details that weren't even important fall5 That's a very neutral statement that accurately reflects this convo (hence me and @Jjang summarizing our argumentation in the most clear language as possible and that STILL being ignored to this second in favor of the Demi/Miley nonsense) so I don't get why you have to then pretend that we just called you delusional and deaf, I did nothing of the sort so why the tag eve1 If that was all I had to say this convo would never have taken off. In fact, it's me who's saying that I am being treated like I'm a dumb idiot so I don't have to be taken seriously — you suddenly flipping that script and reflecting it on yourself is just weird to me moo6

So I guess none of us feel like we're being taken seriously ayumi1 So the solution is to just stick to the arguments used and have our convo around those, so let's just then focus on the arguments like I've been asking y'all to do for a few pages now moo1

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2 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

But I haven't said that I disagree with it though? rip4 Do you get it? I even said that we all know that she is not capable of being this good as she was and even she's aware of it... I said it like few times already in here. On the other hand your explanation about how Miley and Demi are singing more effectively is still missing

Okay then, we agree on my major argument, my main point and what I initially wanted to say and argue about. Horray.

I already explained that though

"how can they sing more effectively? by singing songs with full conviction, which Mariah can't do anymore because a vital and an essential factor to the emotional aspect of her songs rely on how well she executes her power vocals, that's how she sounds vocally effective and can touch people, which is a rarity these days. However, the songs singers such as Miley and Demi choose to perform do not depend on flawless vocal execution, Miley's voice has a unique ring to it that sounds compelling and resonates with millions of people, her pitch, her fast vibrato - that's where she stacks up her emotions and that's where her conviction power as a vocal performer is displayed, that's why she has performances with 100m views "

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@Jjang @Earth Ripper Emotions are subjective. They don't sing better than Mariah. That's where your point jjang fails. By the things you say. Mariah can stay around, and just adapt to sing songs in her current voice. You think Mariah can't deliver a good performance using the strength of her current voice, and that's just not true.

 

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5 minutes ago, light741 said:

@Jjang @Earth Ripper Emotions are subjective. They don't sing better than Mariah. That's where your point jjang fails. By the things you say. Mariah can stay around, and just adapt to sing songs in her current voice. You think Mariah can't deliver a good performance using the strength of her current voice, and that's just not true.

 

But I already said that Miley / Demi cannot pursue Mariah's performing career pattern because they too will fail if their reputation depended solely on the quality of the power vocal executions.

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5 minutes ago, light741 said:

You think Mariah can't deliver a good performance using the strength of her current voice, and that's just not true.

Again:

This shows the fatal difference between the two singers: one can just sing melodies fluently, the other has to constantly come up with vocal runs because she fucks up non-stop oprah6 The one establishes a powerful emotional arc, the other just stands and sings like she's in the shower playing around lazily with her rough morning voice. The one delivers a memorable performance of an iconic song, the other delivers a mediocre performance of an iconic song that would never be accepted as a good rendition if she performed it in front of an American Idol judging panel oprah11

I already made this point: when Mariah can't even get into a fucking singing competition with her current voice she does not qualify as good, solid, excellent,... Meanwhile, don't tell me Demi or Miley couldn't get in because they could which solidifies all of my points chi1

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@Earth Ripper They could?. Sorry but if you think current Mariah is not good at all. lovato and cyrus are what then?. They are not as good as Mariah. So you have to make up your mind. Mariah has proven she can still sing in tune, and produce good resonance. So saying she has no singing capability left is a lie. And saying lovato and cyrus are above her is a lie. My point stands still. You only see the flaws of Mariah because that's the one you want to write off. And yes being a Madonna stan makes me doubt you more. Because your fanbase trackrecord is anytthing but objective when it comes to Mariah.

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28 minutes ago, light741 said:

They could?. Sorry but if you think current Mariah is not good at all. lovato and cyrus are what then?. They are not as good as Mariah. 

They can both sing that Hero song a lot better than she did in the video I posted, that's what I know jj2

I already said I don't think they're technically superb singers, but they just don't fuck up as much as Mariah does. Do I again have to repeat that Mariah can't get through one verse without fucking up a number of times? oprah10 And again, it's not just about Demi and Miley, take a look at other peers like Nicole, Beyoncé,... who could outsing her in a heartbeat performing her own songs. 

30 minutes ago, light741 said:

Mariah has proven she can still sing in tune, and produce good resonance.

Every fucking singer should be capable of that omg, but she goes off key plenty of times in every recent performance I've seen, and covers up her mistakes with disastrous runs that ruins the flow of the melody, that is not what a good singer does eve1

31 minutes ago, light741 said:

So saying she has no singing capability left is a lie. 

I didn't say that, I just said that she's mediocre to the degree of not getting into a vocal talent show today, a point you have consistently ignored every single time (about 4x now I think) I brought it up, I'm guessing because you know I'm right dead4

31 minutes ago, light741 said:

My point stands still. You only see the flaws of Mariah because that's the one you want to write off. 

Well yeah because this thread is about her lmao kii1

Like I already said tons of times: I did the same for Whitney and Xtina and I'll do the same for every other vocal legend when they reach the point Mariah has reached now mad2 And trust me, I don't have to go looking for her flaws, when you compare the two video's I posted again and again (which you have again ignored) it's just blatantly obvious that she is not an impressive talent anymore moo6

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I think it's silly in general for Mariah to lipsync BUT it was fucking New Year's and freezing.

 

But even if that weren't the case, you can tell in the video shit was all kinds of wrong and she was not entirely to blame.  She was visibly upset, and Mariah shows her emotions even less in settings like that than most of the other professional divas.  The uppity stuff is just her playing to role.  It was a train wreck and she was very aware of it, but her being upset about it was because she couldn't do anything about it, not because it was her fault (which I'm inclined to think it wasn't).

 

I do think her team has been a total fucking mess the past few years in organizing these performances.  She's surrounded by flops it seems--this sort of thing keeps happening and it's sad.  She can't have just lost her voice.  I think it's just uniformly bad planning.

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