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A lamb's meltdown on the NYE performance

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On 2.1.2017 at 7:09 AM, light741 said:

@Nick Jonas

 

 

 

 

Seriously, this is not good. 

She's straining most of these notes out, her voice is inconsistent and she lets out several unpleasant squeaks regularly, her voice is just not strong anymore and that's for you to deal with apparently. Her act is about being excellent, but she's just average now.

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16 hours ago, Jjang said:

Seriously, this is not good. 

She's straining most of these notes out, her voice is inconsistent and she lets out several unpleasant squeaks regularly, her voice is just not strong anymore and that's for you to deal with apparently. Her act is about being excellent, but she's just average now.

Okay, then how can you explain this, which was also in 2016 where Mariah performed Emotions?

Where's the strain? Where's the inconsistency? Where's the unpleasant squeaks that you mention? The way she performed a glissando at the intro without any roughage at all just proves it. I'm not denying that she's past her vocal prime and isn't as strong as before, but if she could perform something like this in 2016, most parts of her voice is pretty much still intact and she could still sing melodically well. This performance is nothing less than excellent and definitely not average at all.

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17 hours ago, Jjang said:

Seriously, this is not good. 

She's straining most of these notes out, her voice is inconsistent and she lets out several unpleasant squeaks regularly, her voice is just not strong anymore and that's for you to deal with apparently. Her act is about being excellent, but she's just average now.

Let's point out one thing about "average" and music forums. Music forums stan for "great vocalists" that have been straining most of the notes since they first started their careers. So i find it to be hypocrisy to the next level. When those same people come for Mariah. Where are the countless flaw free, no strained vocals of lovato, xtina, miley, and many other so called "outstanding vocalists" of the past 18 years?. Where are their consistent vocals?. Consistently strained, pitchy, high larynx and bad vocal placement maybe. But certainly that consistency is not a good type of consistency. So why do they get a pass?. Mariah set the standard very high for her. And these people with so many flaws since their first single came out, get to be called on that level by many?, and get a pass for things they attack Mariah?. Unless they stan for somebody like Maria Callas, they better not try it with Mariah's vocals. They better stop pretending they stan for opera singers. Mariah still has a better technique than all of the ones mentioned. Also Mariah is consistent in her low register and mid belts. And she can still produce good amount of resonance in upper belts when she is very well rested. She is not like she was at her prime. But she can still sing, and if inferior people get a pass and are called amazing vocalists. Then they better stop trying it with Mariah. An established A list vocalist in the music history book.

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17 hours ago, Jon. said:

This performance is nothing less than excellent and definitely not average at all.

If you can't understand that if she sang it like that on NYE she would not be praised for her vocals — probably the contrary — then I just feel bad for you 'cause you're clearly just making excuses on her behalf, maybe even unconsciously influencing your own hearing or something carla1 To call that "excellent" omg. Imagine her walking into a musical theater exam and performing like that. She wouldn't pass. That means it can't possibly be excellent. Esp. when the public is used to live vocal slayage from Beyoncé, Céline,... oprah3 She wouldn't impress anyone and that's the truth.

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17 hours ago, Jon. said:

Okay, then how can you explain this, which was also in 2016 where Mariah performed Emotions?

Where's the strain? Where's the inconsistency? Where's the unpleasant squeaks that you mention? The way she performed a glissando at the intro without any roughage at all just proves it. I'm not denying that she's past her vocal prime and isn't as strong as before, but if she could perform something like this in 2016, most parts of her voice is pretty much still intact and she could still sing melodically well. This performance is nothing less than excellent and definitely not average at all.

The straining and the inconsistency are displayed in these videos as well, get your ears checked. 

The videos being LQ helps her sound less terrible, and please, she's lipping the whistle notes. ayumi1 You'd think paying for a Mariah concert would grant you authentic notes at the very least, but not these days.

16 hours ago, light741 said:

Let's point out one thing about "average" and music forums. Music forums stan for "great vocalists" that have been straining most of the notes since they first started their careers. So i find it to be hypocrisy to the next level. When those same people come for Mariah. Where are the countless flaw free, no strained vocals of lovato, xtina, miley, and many other so called "outstanding vocalists" of the past 18 years?. Where are their consistent vocals?. Consistently strained, pitchy, high larynx and bad vocal placement maybe. But certainly that consistency is not a good type of consistency. So why do they get a pass?. Mariah set the standard very high for her. And these people with so many flaws since their first single came out, get to be called on that level by many?, and get a pass for things they attack Mariah?. Unless they stan for somebody like Maria Callas, they better not try it with Mariah's vocals. They better stop pretending they stan for opera singers. Mariah still has a better technique than all of the ones mentioned. Also Mariah is consistent in her low register and mid belts. And she can still produce good amount of resonance in upper belts when she is very well rested. She is not like she was at her prime. But she can still sing, and if inferior people get a pass and are called amazing vocalists. Then they better stop trying it with Mariah. An established A list vocalist in the music history book.

But I never claimed any of these artists are excellent singers lol. Mariah was all about excellence, except even you're claiming she's just as average as any other pop singer now, which was my point, when your whole shtick is about fucking being a superb vocalist, then becoming just as good as everyone else (and even that is arguable these days) is career suicide. Hence why I think she's useless as a performer for years now.

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16 hours ago, light741 said:

Unless they stan for somebody like Maria Callas, they better not try it with Mariah's vocals. They better stop pretending they stan for opera singers.

But that's not a defense. You can't possibly argue that because people are a fan of, say, Justin Biebs that they can't recognize when Mariah is unimpressive vocally rih2 Flawed vocals are in many cases just objectively observable (many of Mariah's recent performances that were publicly discussed count as perfect examples) even for people who have no clue about vocal technique rih14

This "well your fav is Madonna and Mariah is better" argument is just an evasion. Just because Mariah sings better than someone who isn't as capable a singer doesn't make her excellent interesting1 That's like saying McDonald's is a quality restaurant because it's better than the microwave burgers you can buy for a dollar in a grocery store carla1 Even when people don't go to five star restaurants regularly, they know McDonald's isn't cuisine. The joke is that a lot of Mariah fans will make fun of other fans for "pretending they stan for opera singers" when they themselves can't admit when Mariah is just singing average at best, horrible at worst brit5

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@Earth Ripper @Jjang

The fact you mention celine dion. If you can't notice the decline in her voice then you also need to check your ears earth ripper. And the massive lipsync of celine?. The lipsync seems to be ok for others with vocal decline but not for Mariah?. Mariah can still be a capable vocalist and that's a fact. She doesn't have to be at her prime to say she can still sing. As long as all the shouting banshees have a place in this industry and the stan world, Mariah is allowed to be around and do whatever she wants despite the fact she is not as good as she was. Average by what standard?. Her standard maybe. Mariah can still sing very well in her low register and her mid belts. Mariah can still sing in tune, with good breath support and resonance. And those are the esentials of singing. So don't throw the word average so lightly. Many fanbases have been wanting Mariah to go away but that's not happening. I dont know what bothers them so much. But wait on a chair because standing you will get tired.

And flawed vocals are not so objectively observable. Otherwise Christina Aguilera, Lovato, Grande, Adele, etc wouldn't be called outstanding vocalists.

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5 hours ago, light741 said:

As long as all the shouting banshees have a place in this industry and the stan world, Mariah is allowed to be around and do whatever she wants despite the fact she is not as good as she was. Average by what standard?. Her standard maybe.

Of course she's allowed, omg stop acting like we're that hateful. If Céline had performances (and corresponding publicity) like Mariah's Tokyo mess and her Christmas disaster, and I couldn't find one video where she sounds impressive and worthy of my money I would absolutely say that she should just retire — I did the same for Whitney brit0

Basically you have no point. We think Mariah's vocals have deteriorated to a degree where she should consider retiring, you think her voice is good enough, that's a very simple disagreement chi1 You don't need to bring anything else to the table, like other fanbases and other vocalists who can lip-sync (as if the public isn't equally outraged/mocking when they're caught, there are numerous recent examples) it's all irrelevant and won't change my mind. Like it or not, my opinion about Mariah is not based on a double standard, I don't know about other people, but I'm not those other people gaga11 So if you wanna talk about why Mariah's vocals are still good enough then do that without pretending I'm unfairly judging her because Céline also lip-syncs, like wtf is that.

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@Earth Ripper

celine dion's voice has also declined and she also lipsync a lot. So yes she is relevant to the topic since you are the one who mentioned her. And i noticed the double standard. I don't expect Mariah to be praised the same way she was praised years ago when she was at a higher place in vocally. But i will point out the fact that saying she can't sing anymore is an exaggeration.  And what i expect is for some adults to stop the double standards, praising the strained, pitchy, bad vocal placement of grande, xtina, lovato, miley, etc, and calling them "outstanding" and on the level of top tier vocalists. When they come for Mariah who still has a better singing technique than them, and still they get a pass for their flaws. And i expect them to not bring  crap about vocal decline and lipsync if they mention others(like celine), that have also declined vocally and lipsync a lot as well.

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15 minutes ago, light741 said:

celine dion's voice has also declined and she also lipsync a lot. So yes she is relevant to the topic since you are the one who mentioned her.

I mentioned her as a very simple example of how people can distinguish between vocal legends who can still deliver a stunning performance live (Céline is still widely known and praised for amazing stage craft despite her age) and vocal legends who are struggling, I mean Mariah has been making headlines for her disastrous vocals for years now chi1 I was just saying that you don't need to be a vocal expert or a Maria Callas fan to watch the videos and say: "omg she sounds terrible", which was what you seemed to imply — "if you don't regularly stan for far better vocalists than Mariah you can't criticize her or even describe her vocals as horrific!!" which I think is bs that has nothing to do with the global observation that Mariah's vocals on many instances are lackluster and that's putting it mildly brit0

I did not bring up Céline as an example of a better vocalist, and I have clearly stated continuously that I don't care who is better than Mariah, that doesn't make Mariah's vocals impressive, so don't try it with that angle.

15 minutes ago, light741 said:

And what i expect is for some adults to stop the double standards, praising the strained, pitchy, bad vocal placement of grande, xtina, lovato, miley, etc, and calling them "outstanding" and on the level of top tier vocalists. When they come for Mariah who still has a better singing technique than them, and still they get a pass for their flaws. And i expect them to not bring  crap about vocal decline and lipsync if they mention others(like celine), that have also declined vocally and lipsync a lot as well.

But again, I'm not one of those people. 

So basically you're just upset about the general response and you're taking it out on me dead7 The crucial difference, in my view, is that those less talented performers don't have such routine fuck ups that Mariah has now, and their performance skill is about more than just showing off their high notes. When I see an acoustic Miley performance filled with genuine emotion and expression, it's easy to look beyond the flaws (which are small and do not at all disturb the performance) because the performance as it was constructed was successful — when Mariah comes on stage and just wants to entertain people with her voice alone, and that voice isn't outstanding, then her whole act isn't outstanding anymore because that's all she's got going for herself eve1 Not the case with most other vocalists. Even Céline brings a massive show and a ton of stage energy to the table, so if she doesn't do the highest notes you still get your money's worth. Mariah just walks around and sings and she barely succeeds. That's why people are calling her out rn. I don't think that's hard to grasp, even if you don't agree with it.

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@Earth Ripper Then why tell somebody else to check their ears?. Celine Dion has been the biggest master of lipsync among big voiced divas for years. Which is why a lot of people don't commet on her vocal decline as much. And celine dion is not who she is for being a performer so let's not. A good amount of people already call her out for the amount of lipsync. And when somebody asked her about it, she defended lipsync and was obviously pissed by the question. So yes let's not.

Emotions are subjective. For me This side of Mariah is very emotional and i think that makes it a very worthy performance for example.  

 

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6 minutes ago, light741 said:

Celine Dion has been the biggest master of lipsync among big voiced divas for years. Which is why a lot of people don't commet on her vocal decline as much. And celine dion is not who she is for being a performer so let's not. A good amount of people already call her out for the amount of lipsync. And when somebody asked her about it, she defended lipsync and was obviously pissed by the question. So yes let's not.

Again: I'm not saying Céline is better, like I said I don't care how horrible she is, that doesn't make Mariah's vocals good clap1 If people are already calling her out for lipping, then why are you so fucking pressed about her and her reputation? cry3

You're not replying to anything I'm posting, a pattern I remember from earlier discussions with you katy2 That "oh Mariah can sing emotionally too!" reply is completely irrelevant, because that's not a substantial part of her act. Once again: her act revolves around hitting high notes and being a vocal diva and she is clearly struggling in that department (and I don't give a FUCK that someone like Céline is struggling too, this thread is not about her and it doesn't matter that she would be because that would make two struggling vocalists), so that is why people like me say she should consider retiring lj1 That is not hard to understand. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that Mariah is actually doing just fine, because she is not, the end, someone who is routinely discussed in public as having disastrous vocals and a horrible attitude about it is not doing just fine.

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@Earth Ripper Then you shouldn't have mentioned celine dion as an example of a current vocal slayage. Mariah as a vocalist can bring emotions. The fact that you want to limit her act to high notes. Mariah doesn't have to sing at the top of her range to deliver a good vocal performance. You saying that makes me think you have a very limited vision about vocalists. If Mariah focused more on the strong parts of her current voice. She wouldn't be facing the current drama. If you truly think that you have to hit the highest note to have the credibility of being capable as a vocalist, then you have no idea what you are talking about. There are people with a small vocal range that can give Mariah a run for her money when it comes to being a vocalist.

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1 hour ago, light741 said:

Then you shouldn't have mentioned celine dion as an example of a current vocal slayage. Mariah as a vocalist can bring emotions. The fact that you want to limit her act to high notes. Mariah doesn't have to sing at the top of her range to deliver a good vocal performance. You saying that makes me think you have a very limited vision about vocalists. If Mariah focused more on the strong parts of her current voice. She wouldn't be facing the current drama. If you truly think that you have to hit the highest note to have the credibility of being capable as a vocalist, then you have no idea what you are talking about. There are people with a small vocal range that can give Mariah a run for her money when it comes to being a vocalist.

I'm not saying you have to have a big range, I'm just saying that Mariah is 100% associated with high notes, whistle tones and All I Want clap1 And showing her tits. Only in the last department does she still succeed ny4 Let's be real for a second, her reputation today is of a vocal legend who lost her voice and is trying to make up for it with sex appeal and diva attitude moo5 I'm talking about public reputation here. No one but her biggest fans go to see Mariah for an emotional vocal performance are you kidding. They wanna hear the iconic voice (and that's just my theory because people apparently don't feel like buying tickets to see her live) doing its iconic stuff, and instead the public has been served recurring rumors and proof of Mariah's voice failing non-stop, esp. since 2014 oprah11 That is unparalleled by any of her peers, and the last example of a backlash like that was with Whitney, so that again reinforces my idea that it's just easy to recognize when a vocal legend fucks up regardless of who your own personal vocal favorite is rav3 And yes, fucking up à la the Christmas disaster is different from having minor flaws in a performance like Ariana or Miley have, I can't believe you're trying to argue otherwise.

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When will Madonna stans ever stop ? Honestly, it's embarassing for y'all.

For someone you pretend to don't like, y'all seem to know a LOT about her & her current vocal abilities, just stop. ez67ffD.gif 

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1 minute ago, Royale said:

When will Madonna stans ever stop ? Honestly, it's embarassing for y'all.

What does being a Madonna stan have to do with it? brit4

I'm kept from stopping because people keep quoting me to disagree with what I think is a very simple idea: Mariah's vocals are average these days and she's been making headlines since 2014 because of her disastrous performances. Somehow you fans find a way to jump around that but the facts are still the same: her reputation is pretty much ruined, and if you want to argue that this is unfair then you better have some convincing stuff to convince me of that, but more average performances are not gonna help, what's embarrassing about that? brit12

What's really embarrassing is you making these passive aggressive remarks without daring to quote me.

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3 hours ago, Earth Ripper said:

What does being a Madonna stan have to do with it? brit4

I'm kept from stopping because people keep quoting me to disagree with what I think is a very simple idea: Mariah's vocals are average these days and she's been making headlines since 2014 because of her disastrous performances. Somehow you fans find a way to jump around that but the facts are still the same: her reputation is pretty much ruined, and if you want to argue that this is unfair then you better have some convincing stuff to convince me of that, but more average performances are not gonna help, what's embarrassing about that? brit12

What's really embarrassing is you making these passive aggressive remarks without daring to quote me.

 

I guess you felt targeted by my post.  brit12

 

The funniest thing is that I didn't know that you stan for her, I didn't even read the full thread but I saw 2-3 Madge stans I recognized few times later brit12

 

Why are you telling me that my 'passive agressive remarks' are embarassing when you literally do the same & react to what I said ? nat1

 

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45 minutes ago, Royale said:

Why are you telling me that my 'passive agressive remarks' are embarassing when you literally do the same & react to what I said ? nat1

Sorry, I thought I saw you post earlier already in here, probably confused you with Skywalker or something oprah3 Anyway, it would still be clearer if you just referenced the people you were talking about, not doing that is yes, passive agressive and evasive at the same time which is embarrassing rav2

And I don't do that since I quote people directly and use arguments and not vague shade, so I don't know why you're suggesting we're engaging in the same behavior, we are not aretha1

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