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Vesper

Lemonade Beyhive meltdown

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6 minutes ago, Infrared said:

I'm not saying Grammy is only about critical acclaim. It was about QUALITY first, and then impact and sales. Now it switches like the light switch to give to any singer. 

Adele won because of her sales, before the quality of the album. If sales is the first factor, it's no better than a Billboard award dead4 

Well, it was pretty high quality, self-written, personal work and had huge impact across the world. The fact that 25 hit 20+ million sales and single handedly revitalized physical sales in 2016 across the world shows how huge of an impact the album had on the music industry beyond simply selling a lot. It's not like it simply streamed a lot, it changed the public perception of physical sales in a way that no other album has done in this decade. That kind of impact speaks volumes to "Album of the Year" status, doesn't it? 

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11 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Well, it was pretty high quality, self-written, personal work and had huge impact across the world. The fact that 25 hit 20+ million sales and single handedly revitalized physical sales in 2016 across the world shows how huge of an impact the album had on the music industry beyond simply selling a lot. That kind of impact speaks volumes to "Album of the Year" status, doesn't it? 

sales impact  cultural impact

 

The fact that 25 hit 20+ million sales and single handedly revitalized physical sales in 2016 across the world shows how huge of an impact the album had on the music industry beyond simply selling a lot.

Also this sentence made absolutely no sense. You argued about sales in a paragraph about it being more than just sales. What type of English class fail. Not the way you speak, but just you giving the definition of a definition. dead4 

 

 

When people think of 25, they think of it as a sequel to 21, with a few records broken and Starbucks break-up songs

When people think of Lemonade, they think of it as a separate entity in her discography, set to the themes of black femininity and political strife relevant to 2016. Highlighting new genres for the artist. 

 

What exactly did 25 do different than 21? nat1 

Do you think 25 could've been released in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015? It's not an argument if the album is timeless, it's the idea that it doesn't introduce anything new - not to 2015, and certainly not to Adele.

 

I'll give you this that Hello is miles time better than Formation, but 25 is not better than Lemonade. 

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7 minutes ago, Vesper said:

That kind of impact speaks volumes to "Album of the Year" status, doesn't it? 

But the Grammy's are supposed to be about excellence, not commercial impact. They have other accolades and even actual awards for that wendy3

The Grammy's are bs, its only merit is that they can bring together impressive artists to perform on the night brit0 Instead of crying about how it should change, people should just accept the show for what it is: a rigged popularity contest. People who criticize Grammy noms and wins only contribute to this ghostly aura of importance around this award when we can also just accept that it doesn't mean squat anyway, that's way better resistance imo aretha1

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5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Well, it was pretty high quality, self-written, personal work and had huge impact across the world. The fact that 25 hit 20+ million sales and single handedly revitalized physical sales in 2016 across the world shows how huge of an impact the album had on the music industry beyond simply selling a lot. It's not like it simply streamed a lot, it changed the public perception of physical sales in a way that no other album has done in this decade. That kind of impact speaks volumes to "Album of the Year" status, doesn't it? 

The only argument in support of this album's win seems to rely on sales, which couldve been based solely on the back of 21's success. If this was the case, then why did Beck win AOTY, when Self Titled had a significant effect on the industry as well, one of them being effectively changing the release date for songs and albums?

 

The Grammys have been awarding plain Jane and safe albums for years now, I guess they just happened to be released by White people.

 

Years from now we'll realize which album had a bigger impact. 

 

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3 hours ago, John Wayne said:

^

eve1 

We had the same conversation last year when Kendrick lost to Taylor, this is much more than just Bey stans being pressed about their fav anna1 The only one bringing stan mentality in here is you and others who fail to see it because they're drowned by their hatred for her.

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2 minutes ago, Jony said:

We had the same conversation last year when Kendrick lost to Taylor, this is much more than just Bey stans being pressed about their fav anna1 The only one bringing stan mentality in here is you and others who fail to see it because they're drowned by their hatred for her.

He wishes Gaga had an album as critically acclaimed ny5 

Sorry sis, not even TFM can hold a candle and certainly not Joanne ny5 

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we can agree to disagree on Lemonade being overrated or not

but the point of the album, especially in our political atmosphere in the US, is to empower black people and black women especially

if you don't see the racial commentary, you can see how raw Beyoncé was emotionally

Especially with the Lemonade Film, each song is about how she and women in general go thru the cycles of breaking up/getting cheated on

In all of my years being a Beyoncé fan I would've never thought she would release an album so personal and emotional

As Adele in her speech said, it's a side to Beyoncé we don't see at all bc she is so private. So to let us know how vulnerable she can be and the different emotions she felt, really made me think it was better than 25.

 

Mostly why the hive is reacting the way we are is bc when BEYONCÉ was (in my thoughts snubbed) by Beck it was

oh sales don't matter it's about artistry

Now with Adele it's about sales and not artistry, what more do you want from Beyoncé to do

IMO, the reason why it's so unfair is because it strengthens the message of racial tensions the album in the first place.

 I really do think the industry is mad at Beyoncé for not following what they do:

Like she is against Apple Music and big streaming, using TIDAL instead

She does surprise releases instead of traditional route

She barely promos if that and the gets outrageously high critic scoring

This era was different because it feels so weird, those who love Bey love this album and those who don't, still liked it

It was weird to see it lose since most people liked it and were in agreement

WE thought it was a shoe in for the win because in a sense this was Beyoncé's most perfect album

I really think the Academy is setting a message that they don't like how Beyoncé does this and they want her to be more conservative when it comes to releasing 

 

I'm not mad at Adele at all, I even think she didn't want the award for herself

I loved her speech and as a fellow stan I respected everything she said

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24 minutes ago, Infrared said:

sales impact  cultural impact

 

The fact that 25 hit 20+ million sales and single handedly revitalized physical sales in 2016 across the world shows how huge of an impact the album had on the music industry beyond simply selling a lot.

Also this sentence made absolutely no sense. You argued about sales in a paragraph about it being more than just sales. What type of English class fail. Not the way you speak, but just you giving the definition of a definition. dead4 

 

Um, the current sales climate is high digital sales and streaming points to produce the final sales number. What 25 did was that it marked a return to physical vendors and impacted the way albums were distributed and marketed during the 2016 year. It makes complete sense - it revitalized PHYSICAL sales and impacted the MUSIC INDUSTRY beyond simply being a high-selling album as we're seeing with other digital+streaming albums. um2 

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31 minutes ago, King X said:

The only argument in support of this album's win seems to rely on sales, which couldve been based solely on the back of 21's success. If this was the case, then why did Beck win AOTY, when Self Titled had a significant effect on the industry as well, one of them being effectively changing the release date for songs and albums?

 

The Grammys have been awarding plain Jane and safe albums for years now, I guess they just happened to be released by White people.

 

Years from now we'll realize which album had a bigger impact. 

 

I agreed that Self Titled had a significant impact and I would've preferred it over Beck's album that year. brit11 I'm mainly pointing out that 25's impact through its sales is absolutely huge, especially in this sales climate, and people keep trying to downplay 25's success and impact (including the fact that it was personal and self-written...) because Beyoncé somehow can't do no wrong with Lemonade, which I personally found very boring musically. brit10

 

Anyway, the fact that the Grammys have been awarding safe albums for years is completely true, but how much of that is rooted in racism? I personally use 25 more than I use Lemonade so I was like "whatever" when Lemonade didn't win, but the entire hive is claiming "RACISM!!1!" as the reasoning why Beyoncé lost and not just the fact that the Grammys are known to be very conservative with their taste, so much so that I just can't help but think that the entire hive is composed of SJWs. brit10

 

And yes I completely agree with those saying that the Grammys are not a marker of quality or excellence, hence my rebuttal of those claiming that Lemonade is the superior album quality-wise and therefore deserve to win. I think @Earth Ripper hit the nail on the head about the Grammys being a glorified popularity contest. 

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I really just think the Grammy's and the academy should have guidelines for what qualifies as AOTY

that's really the problem and also race is a problem since only 3 black women in history have won AOTY award

dead2

the Academy does have a track record of ignoring black albums like Janet's Rhythm Nation 1814, Mariah's Daydream, & MJ's Bad

which are arguably deserving and impactful in their years and as time goes on, the AOTY award doesn't reflect the trends

cause personally this snub isn't as bad as the Beck one was, though.

The Beck win is a serious sign of how backward the Academy can be sometimes

I'm not going to call it racist because Beyoncé lost, but it is a problem these albums by black artists win the subpar awards instead of the major ones

like some separate but equal tea. I really do think it's a problem though, it's like the Oscars kind of

moo2

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37 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

But the Grammy's are supposed to be about excellence, not commercial impact. They have other accolades and even actual awards for that wendy3

The Grammy's are bs, its only merit is that they can bring together impressive artists to perform on the night brit0 Instead of crying about how it should change, people should just accept the show for what it is: a rigged popularity contest. People who criticize Grammy noms and wins only contribute to this ghostly aura of importance around this award when we can also just accept that it doesn't mean squat anyway, that's way better resistance imo aretha1

If they were truly about excellence, then the top 5 nominees technically wouldn't include Adele, Bieber, Drake, nor that rock guy. lol2 Obviously the Grammys doesn't really care about true excellence for the AOTY award. It's too commercial for that. 

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23 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Um, the current sales climate is high digital sales and streaming points to produce the final sales number. What 25 did was that it marked a return to physical vendors and impacted the way albums were distributed and marketed during the 2016 year. It makes complete sense - it revitalized PHYSICAL sales and impacted the MUSIC INDUSTRY beyond simply being a high-selling album as we're seeing with other digital+streaming albums. um2 

The Grammy Award for Album of the Year is presented by the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences of the United States to "honor artistic achievement, technical proficiency and overall excellence in the recording industry, without regard to album sales or chart position."

 

People are still selling physical albums dead4 Marked a return makes no sense when there are literally thousands of artists doing the same thing.  

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One of the other issues here is that this was Beyonce's THIRD AoTY nomination.  She lost to Taylor (IMO deservedly, in 2010).  

She then came out with Beyonce, the whole world was shook by the "surprise release"  Surprise releases literally became a thing f=after Beyone did it. The album was critically acclaimed, and was very successful, with singles that performed well.. and yet she lost this time to Beck.  His album was not as successful as hers.  Success doesn't always mean an AoTY win apparently (yet it did for Taylor and Adele)

SOMEHOW Beyonce came back with an even more critically acclaimed album. she poured 110% of herself into it, it was intimate, it was powerful.  the visuals have been unmatched as whole CONCEPT.  AND YET she somehow lost again.  The Grammy's decision making process isn;t very transparent so there's a lot of discussion on what makes something win.  Theres cultural relevancy, theres commercial success, theres music business impact, and theres even the fact that someone had been nominated in the past but didn't win.  

Beyonce has come back twice from losing and has somehow outdone herself both times.  Adele came back and did not outdo herself, and she had already won.  In most years that would have been a loss for her.  Taylor lost for Red in 2014 partially because it didn't really top her previous work (1989 did).  

So, Beyonce had been nominated for a third time, put out her best, most critically acclaimed work, moved the needle in pop culture yet again, and still had one of the top selling albums of the year.. and yet she lost to someone who did not show any growth or improvement.  tea1

 

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Like sis @Bionic Monster said in a different thread, her stans are acting like she hasnt won any Grammys her entire career. Besides the ones she won on Sunday, she has 20 Grammys hons and is the second most awarded in females. True, i think Lemonade should have snatched, but it didnt, its not the first time the Grammys have done this. and whats worse is that they keep saying the Grammys are fake yet its them that make up most of the damn views. Hypocrites.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

I agreed that Self Titled had a significant impact and I would've preferred it over Beck's album that year. brit11 I'm mainly pointing out that 25's impact through its sales is absolutely huge, especially in this sales climate, and people keep trying to downplay 25's success and impact (including the fact that it was personal and self-written...) because Beyoncé somehow can't do no wrong with Lemonade, which I personally found very boring musically. brit10

 

Anyway, the fact that the Grammys have been awarding safe albums for years is completely true, but how much of that is rooted in racism? I personally use 25 more than I use Lemonade so I was like "whatever" when Lemonade didn't win, but the entire hive is claiming "RACISM!!1!" as the reasoning why Beyoncé lost and not just the fact that the Grammys are known to be very conservative with their taste, so much so that I just can't help but think that the entire hive is composed of SJWs. brit10

 

And yes I completely agree with those saying that the Grammys are not a marker of quality or excellence, hence my rebuttal of those claiming that Lemonade is the superior album quality-wise and therefore deserve to win. I think @Earth Ripper hit the nail on the head about the Grammys being a glorified popularity contest. 

you better spill

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2 hours ago, Infrared said:

The Grammy Award for Album of the Year is presented by the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences of the United States to "honor artistic achievement, technical proficiency and overall excellence in the recording industry, without regard to album sales or chart position."

 

People are still selling physical albums dead4 Marked a return makes no sense when there are literally thousands of artists doing the same thing.  

The Grammys obvious says one thing while doing another rav2 

 

and #DEAD at you thinking I'm suggesting she's the ONLY ONE SELLING PHYSICAL ALBUMS fall1 sis... You must be kidding me?

 

Physical sales have been on a decline for years, and Adele's 25 marked an uptick for many struggling physical sales markets. Duh? um2 An example:  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3533154/Adele-helps-grow-Australian-music-industry-chart-topping-album-25-physical-sales-hit-high-note-time-2012.html

Another:

http://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/thanks-adele-us-physical-album-sales-went-up-in-2015-as-market-held-firm/

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14 hours ago, Vesper said:

I agreed that Self Titled had a significant impact and I would've preferred it over Beck's album that year. brit11 I'm mainly pointing out that 25's impact through its sales is absolutely huge, especially in this sales climate, and people keep trying to downplay 25's success and impact (including the fact that it was personal and self-written...) because Beyoncé somehow can't do no wrong with Lemonade, which I personally found very boring musically. brit10

 

Anyway, the fact that the Grammys have been awarding safe albums for years is completely true, but how much of that is rooted in racism? I personally use 25 more than I use Lemonade so I was like "whatever" when Lemonade didn't win, but the entire hive is claiming "RACISM!!1!" as the reasoning why Beyoncé lost and not just the fact that the Grammys are known to be very conservative with their taste, so much so that I just can't help but think that the entire hive is composed of SJWs. brit10

 

And yes I completely agree with those saying that the Grammys are not a marker of quality or excellence, hence my rebuttal of those claiming that Lemonade is the superior album quality-wise and therefore deserve to win. I think @Earth Ripper hit the nail on the head about the Grammys being a glorified popularity contest. 

The only impact by Adele was sales, sales, sales, and what about Beck? It isn't just the Beyhive noticing how out of touch the Grammys are. This conversation started when 1989 won, with a few eyebrows being raised when Beck received the award.

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