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Katy used real fur for her shoe line. Surprised?

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1 hour ago, Justin Bieber said:

It's one thing to blame: Capitalism 

But the good news, many places are changing. In Berlin a restaurant needed to close because they had no vegan alternatives and then the store gone bankrupt. A little change, but at least change is happening :D

 

That's actually a result of capitalism 😂😂

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No one can argue about the killing of animals for clothing unless they are vegan, that means you vegetarians can't either considering the murder of old or male dairy cows and chickens, not to mention their living conditions. But I'm glad every single person who commented in here are vegan... Best throw your leather items out girls moo4 and yes, while I eat meat, I'll continue to wear fur products. 

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15 hours ago, Earth Ripper said:

That's still in debate tho oprah8 Some authors even go as far to say that it's meat eaters who in the end require more B12 supplements than the average vegetarian because the average Western meat based diet destroys the body's ability to properly absorb B12..

What's in debate? Plant based foods have no B12 unless fortified, that's why vegans must supplement (or I guess eat soil). The fact that some people who follow an omnivorous diet may need to supplement is also true, but the difference is that it's possible to reach desirable levels of intake without supplementation. A nutritiously poor diet is possible whether you're a meat eater, vegetarian or vegan. 

4 hours ago, Justin Bieber said:

Yes, I think I read that humans only began to ate meat once the fire was "invented"

According to Harvard evolutionary biologist Daniel Lieberman:

Cooking makes it easier to chew meat, but evidence suggests that the regular use of fire for cooking didn't pop up until perhaps half a million years ago—far later than the changes to H. erectus. Also, evidence from archaeological and paleontological research points to a spike in human meat consumption by at least 2.6 million years ago.

However, we have plenty of evidence that hominins had begun making stone tools some 3.3 million years ago. Those tools could have been used as pounders to tenderize foods, a practice seen in modern chimps. Flaked tools can also slice foods into easily chewable pieces or remove skin, cartilage and other bits that are harder to chew.

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1 hour ago, Jony said:

What's in debate? Plant based foods have no B12 unless fortified, that's why vegans must supplement (or I guess eat soil). The fact that some people who follow an omnivorous diet may need to supplement is also true, but the difference is that it's possible to reach desirable levels of intake without supplementation. A nutritiously poor diet is possible whether you're a meat eater, vegetarian or vegan.

It's in debate whether there are actually plant based foods that contain B12 moo5 Researchers have identified several plants that probably contain active B12 levels; examples include research on nori in 1995 (where they studied six vegan children who ate it every day and showed no difference at all with even the B12 blood levels when compared to non-vegan subjects), spinach and barley grown on natural soil in 1994 (confirmed to contain B12), several algae in 2005 (also shown to contain B12), and the white button mushroom in 2009 (confirmed to contain B12 levels comparable to those contained by animal products). While these sources were biologically confirmed to contain active B12 and are possible sources of adequate B12 levels for pre-historic humans, they were never tested on modern subjects in a laboratory setting in the context of deficiency brit0 The supplement lobby is too happy, I guess.

A study published in 2000 found absolutely no relationship between the intake of natural animal products and healthy levels of B12 — the problem is absorption, even among young adults who are supposed to have better absorption capacity than 65+ ers who were long thought to be the only age group to be affected by decreases in absorption capability bey2 Biological study shows that human beings naturally recycle B12 even in the case of an intake deficiency, and this trait can actually be used in favor of the idea that humans only rarely acquired B12 from regular intake, since the trait would never have developed or survived in an environment where humans heavily relied on intake for healthy B12 levels oprah5

Even healthy modern humans can recycle B12 for 20 years without ever acquiring it through food, and research has shown bacteria producing B12 to be present in breastmilk, as well as showing that B12 is actually being synthesized in the human small intestine where it is available for absorption. Studies in the 80s on vegetarian Indian immigrants residing in the UK showed that, despite having the same dietary habits as native Indians, they suffered, in a dramatic percentage, from B12 deficiency, while native Indians did not. What the latter did have was a higher amount of bacteria in the small intestine bey1 Western lifestyle was suggested to decrease these bacteria, which resulted in no synthesis of B12 that could be absorbed/recycled by the body itself. Similarly, a study on Iranian villagers showed that subjects who only rarely ate animal products had surprisingly high B12 levels — two explanations were proposed: a diet low on protein allows for B12-producing bacteria to ascend into the ileum (where the body can absorb its B12 production), and/or that they picked up on the vitamin through contact with B12-producing bacteria because of the combination of a lack of modern hygiene and the constant presence among animals and their droppings  oprah11

So actually it's not a done case at all. What is a done case is that B12 deficiency is dangerous, and that Westerners are particularly prone to it, but the question still remains if the typical Western hygienic lifestyle and diet (incl. animal products) is actually harming our own body's natural production of B12 and protections against its deficiency, which re-opens up the whole case about whether or not a predominantly organic, vegetarian diet combined with more natural lifestyles that automatically create closer contact with B12-producing bacteria regardless of intake is actually a better candidate for the diet standard of early humans jj4

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4 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

It's in debate whether there are actually plant based foods that contain B12 moo5 Researchers have identified several plants that probably contain active B12 levels; examples include research on nori in 1995 (where they studied six vegan children who ate it every day and showed no difference at all with even the B12 blood levels when compared to non-vegan subjects), spinach and barley grown on natural soil in 1994 (confirmed to contain B12), several algae in 2005 (also shown to contain B12), and the white button mushroom in 2009 (confirmed to contain B12 levels comparable to those contained by animal products). While these sources were biologically confirmed to contain active B12 and are possible sources of adequate B12 levels for pre-historic humans, they were never tested on modern subjects in a laboratory setting in the context of deficiency brit0 The supplement lobby is too happy, I guess.

. A study published in 2000 found absolutely no relationship between the intake of natural animal products and healthy levels of B12 — the problem is absorption, even among young adults who are supposed to have better absorption capacity than 65+ ers who were long thought to be the only age group to be affected by decreases in absorption capability bey2 Biological study shows that human beings naturally recycle B12 even in the case of an intake deficiency, and this trait can actually be used in favor of the idea that humans only rarely acquired B12 from regular intake, since the trait would never have developed or survived in an environment where humans heavily relied on intake for healthy B12 levels oprah5

Even healthy modern humans can recycle B12 for 20 years without ever acquiring it through food, and research has shown bacteria producing B12 to be present in breastmilk, as well as showing that B12 is actually being synthesized in the human small intestine where it is available for absorption. Studies in the 80s on vegetarian Indian immigrants residing in the UK showed that, despite having the same dietary habits as native Indians, they suffered, in a dramatic percentage, from B12 deficiency, while native Indians did not. What the latter did have was a higher amount of bacteria in the small intestine bey1 Western lifestyle was suggested to decrease these bacteria, which resulted in no synthesis of B12 that could be absorbed/recycled by the body itself. Similarly, a study on Iranian villagers showed that subjects who only rarely ate animal products had surprisingly high B12 levels — two explanations were proposed: a diet low on protein allows for B12-producing bacteria to descend into the ileum (where the body can absorb its B12 production), and/or that they picked up on the vitamin through contact with B12-producing bacteria because of the combination of a lack of modern hygiene and the constant presence among animals and their droppings  oprah11

So actually it's not a done case at all. What is a done case is that B12 deficiency is dangerous, and that Westerners are particularly prone to it, but the question still remains if the typical Western diet (incl. animal products) is actually harming our own body's natural production and protections against B12 deficiency, which re-opens up the whole case about whether or not a predominantly organic, vegetarian diet combined with more natural lifestyles that automatically create closer contact with B12-producing bacteria regardless of intake is actually a better candidate for the diet standard of early humans jj4

The nori research has been debunked 

When the Watanabe group analyzes a food for B12, they often find molecules that they believe to be the vitamin. But a complication with simply finding B12 in food is that the food might also contain inactive B12 analogues that interfere with active B12. The Watanabe group is well aware of this and often analyzes the food for some of the typical inactive B12 analogues. Sometimes they feed the food to rats to see if it lowers the rats’ methylmalonic acid (MMA) levels, the prime indicator of B12 activity. Based on how much active B12 and inactive analogues they find, and any results with rats, they make recommendations as to whether a food can provide B12 for vegans.

In their latest review, based on the results of their various experiments combined with a study in which six vegan children stayed healthy eating large amounts of seaweed, they suggest that nori is a “suitable” source of B12 for vegans. 

The biggest flaw in this theory is that there is a study that tested raw and dried nori using the gold standard of lowering MMA levels in humans (2), and although the authors of this study were optimistic about raw nori, the fact was that both dried and raw nori reduced B12 status in their subjects.

The rest have not been tested as you said, and even if they're proven to be sufficient I doubt many would rather have mushrooms on the daily instead of a simple supplement. The supplement lobby tho giveup1 

I know the body does a great job on recycling B12, but that doesn't mean that deficiency will not make its appearance sooner or later. Better be safe than sorry. Absorption IS an issue even when it comes to supplementing, only about half of a 1mg dose will get absorbed (and even less if you double the dose). I've heard about the Indian in the UK research and if I recall correctly the cause was the second theory you posted. Can you link the low-protein diet theory though I'm interested jj2 

Anyway enough playing little nutritionists jay1 If anyone's curious just get a blood test to see your levels and act accordingly jj2 

 

Back to Katy jay1 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Carlos said:

they're tacky but We don't have enough info on the bunnies. So keep trying with the bunny joke, I guess.

We do have enough info, really: the shoe was meant to be vegan, someone discovered that this was not the case, the company apologized for the oversight, and immediately pulled the product as they did not intend to sell products made with animals. I don't see the need for a witch hunt or for accusations that there's shady shit happing, really. Mistakes happen and the way things were handled seems pretty straight forward to me, but I guess these threads are more amusing for FOTP when they can drag Katy for 5 pages lotus1 

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13 minutes ago, QUINN said:

We do have enough info, really: the shoe was meant to be vegan, someone discovered that this was not the case, the company apologized for the oversight, and immediately pulled the product as they did not intend to sell products made with animals. I don't see the need for a witch hunt or for accusations that there's shady shit happing, really. Mistakes happen and the way things were handled seems pretty straight forward to me, but I guess these threads are more amusing for FOTP when they can drag Katy for 5 pages lotus1 

I know there's tea but I don't have the time explaining shit to that loser/naysayer. I know it wasn't her doing, it was QA's fault, always.

Katy wouldn't allowed that. 

lotus1

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17 minutes ago, QUINN said:

We do have enough info, really: the shoe was meant to be vegan, someone discovered that this was not the case, the company apologized for the oversight, and immediately pulled the product as they did not intend to sell products made with animals. I don't see the need for a witch hunt or for accusations that there's shady shit happing, really. Mistakes happen and the way things were handled seems pretty straight forward to me, but I guess these threads are more amusing for FOTP when they can drag Katy for 5 pages lotus1 

It's kind of weird how little oversight they had then tho mad5 You'd think they'd know that a shoe with 100% rabbit fur was being produced..

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7 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

It's kind of weird how little oversight they had then tho mad5 You'd think they'd know that a shoe with 100% rabbit fur was being produced..

 

7 minutes ago, QUINN said:

Definitely agree!

 

Katy probably requested to have a rabbit themed batch, ofc, her team thought of real rabbits. rip4

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Carlos said:

 

 

Katy probably requested to have a rabbit themed batch, ofc, her team thought of real rabbits. rip4

 

 

That actually wouldn't be too surprising. I imagine that when she requested "bunny shoes!" it could have gotten lost in translation by the producers to actual rabbit made shoes! rip4 That could be the case, especially seeing as she doesn't seem to have any other animal themed shoes? 

It's sloppy execution on the team's part, but better to have mistakes happen now than later on demi1

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9 hours ago, Courtney Love said:

No one can argue about the killing of animals for clothing unless they are vegan, that means you vegetarians can't either considering the murder of old or male dairy cows and chickens, not to mention their living conditions. But I'm glad every single person who commented in here are vegan... Best throw your leather items out girls moo4 and yes, while I eat meat, I'll continue to wear fur products. 

This is so stupid really. You don't have to be vegan to stand for animal rights. That would be the same thing as saying you can't support LGBT rights, while being straight. 

Spoiler

Or did I bump into some sarcasm here?

 

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Imagine being brutally electrocuted, only to get turned into those fashion abominations.  

Katy with her latest victim 

Even the fact that only one pair out of like a hundred pairs is non-vegan indicates that it was an unauthorized mistake. The team itself stated that the shoes are vegan, and this looks like new knowle


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