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Simón.

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Blog Comments posted by Simón.

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    Just now, Hermione said:

    Okay, I'm glad we seem to be on the same page now, and that we're having a civil discussion without slinging around accusatory remarks of misogyny and transphobia. That happens far too often in these types of conversations elsewhere, and all it does is keep each side from listening to each other's valid arguments. dead1

    As much as this answer seems like a cop-out, it's not up to me who is allowed in female-only spaces. That's for women to decide, not me.

    It's such a touchy subject lately, because it's far less black-and-white than it seems on the surface and I'm not even sure what I think about it honestly. Trans women want their gender identity to be respected by being allowed in women's spaces, and radical feminists are against it because trans women have still been socialized as male and studies have shown that they still have the same rate of perpetrating violence against women that cis men do. But then, if you force trans women into men's spaces, they'll become the victims of violence. A few months ago I would have easily sided with the trans women on this issue, but now I think it's more complicated than that and both sides make a good case. There has to be some sort of solution or at least a compromise that will make both sides happy, but unfortunately it will probably be a while before we figure it out.

    Can you show me the study cause i never heard about that. But I do know that socialization plays a role in the arguments and I do understand where it comes from. 

    I think the most that bothers me with the discussion is that radfems aren't aware of their privilege of being cis. 

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    16 minutes ago, Hermione said:

    I never said that, but once you omit female biology, there is not a single trait that one could argue applies to all women. What exactly does it mean to 'feel like a woman'? I have never seen anyone give a legitimate answer, because they usually resort to the brain sex argument (which has been debunked), or misogynistic gender stereotypes about femininity and fashion. This leads to gender-nonconforming people who are just different and don't have gender dysphoria being made to feel like failures as their birth sex because they don't have this innate feeling of gender identity (since it's a social construct) and get backlash from their families, their peers, and society for straying from gender roles, stereotypes, and expectations. I used to be one of them myself and thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't care about a lot of "manly" or "masculine" things, but nobody subscribes one hundred percent to every single gender role and it doesn't mean I'm any less of a man for not having some mystical innate male spirit. The majority of people don't.

    I'm not dismissing or denying what trans women go through or speaking on behalf of them in any way either. I'm an ally and I'm totally sympathetic to their struggles, but it would be disingenuous to claim that they are the same exact ones that cis women go through. There is definitely some overlap like the high rates of violence committed against them, but until transition trans women are still very much perceived as male by society and thus are treated accordingly. Privilege isn't about what you are, it's about the way that the world sees you. For example, white-passing celebrities like Halsey and Nicole Richie have been afforded certain opportunities by society that they might not have gotten if they didn't pass. Wouldn't it be offensive to non-passing black women who haven't been given that same treatment to claim that those women didn't benefit from white privilege despite their race? Even though the experience of feeling trapped in the wrong body and constantly being misgendered is certainly a traumatic one, it only makes sense that the same would apply to gender.

    I agree with your first paragraph! 

     

    And of course it's not the same on some issues e.g abortion rights, but I do see how radfems are treating trans woman like shit and don't see them as woman. I have some trans friends and they feel like they don't have a place anywhere, because they don't get taken serious by anyone. 

    I just don't like that some radfems see trans woman (even after transition) as someone who is opressing without actually thinking that them being cis could be also an oppression tool. I do agree that it's something different before trans woman decide to do transition. 

    So, asking you, are you supporting for excluding her from feminist circles:

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    She passes as a cis woman, but still radfems think she shouldn't be allowed in their circles?

     

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    6 hours ago, Hermione said:

     

    Fair enough, but apart from biology, isn't the rest all just sexist stereotypes of how a woman is expected to appear and behave?

    And trans women are, in fact, male. Yes, they identify as women, but they still have XY chromosomes and as a result were socialized as male from all the way from birth to their transition which has granted them male privilege despite their gender identity. That is what makes them trans women as opposed to cis women. Cis women and trans women have been socialized differently due to sex-based oppression, and thus have different experiences. Acknowledging biology and material reality is not transphobic.

    " isn't the rest all just sexist stereotypes of how a woman is expected to appear and behave?" Wait, so you think that being trans makes you sexist? ari1 You are totally dismissing the things trans woman go through and I'm actually quite shocked about this. 

    There are trans woman who transition from a very young age who don't get socialized as male at all. Trans woman have one of the highest murder rate and y'all acting they are somewhat privileged. And yeah acknowledging is something different than excluding them. Terfs are truly something on their own. 

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    I disagree with several points of radical feminism,but with parts I disagree the most with are trans-related issues:

    -defines women by their biology.

    -sees gender as an oppressive social structure, is critical of transgender activism and supports gender abolitionism and gender-nonconformity.

    -believes that women are entitled to female-only spaces free of all males including trans women.

    -criticized for excluding men and trans women from the movement, 'reducing womanhood to a vagina' and promoting separatism of the sexes which has widely been deemed unrealistic.

    Those things are flat out transphobic. Feminism is not going to function if you exclude trans woman. "safe spaces free of all males including trans woman" Except that Trans woman are not male. 

     

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