Earth Ripper

Both for different things Bey for star power, talent and artistic quality and Rihanna for her look/vibe and hits

Why not just age restriction Very stupid. Meanwhile a video like Anaconda isn't even age restricted let alone banned Ready for Madonna's semi-embarrassing but viral worthy meltdown about this

Its Swinefest performance remains one of the best, if not the best, recent performance of hers I get how you could dislike the song, but come on, regardless of your opinion of it, it remains impressive how she managed to inject so much palpable emotion and rage into an EDM party track It's literally what ARTPOP was all about. To go back to Fashion!, I always felt like that was one of her most important tracks from a lyrical perspective, I think it's really intimate and introspective actually Like, these: I take it off, I put it on I feel alive when I transform But this love's not material Now take it in and turn me on Zip me up, it can't be wrong 'cause your new look's ethereal It's a key part of the whole album, for me the whole Swine — Donatella — Fashion! — MJH — Dope — Gypsy sequence is a very clear biographical story about how she tried to deal with her trauma and how that eventually resulted in a mental cataclysm Obviously her love for transformation reached a dangerous form in MJH with all of its consequences. Like, how can you discard all of that content by suggesting that eh this song isn't cool, let's throw it out and replace it, I still feel like too many LMs treat that album in particular as some thrown together Britney thing when to me it's clear it should be approached as a piece regardless of your personal opinion about the quality of the music End rant. That album gets me so defensive omg. Not even my Gaga fav but.

I really don't understand this JND hate bandwagon It has arguably the best instrumental of the whole album, its vibe is unparalleled by any Gaga track out there, and the lyrics are well done and memorable imo Like, why is everyone in love with CLLG but not this? Makes no sense to me, esp. when CLLG's (even though I love it) lyrics are like 1000x more embarrassing and awkward Fashion! is one of the best songs on the album so bye at that Donatella is absolutely mediocre but then the melodies and lyrics are effective and, again, memorable, so also don't get the hate for that Swine has an absolutely amazing pre-chorus, strong verses, and a killer production so whut I just don't see how those tracks are that terrible compared to literally everything else on the album.. I don't mind any of the songs on the album because for me, the album tells a very specific story with each song, so it's like all of them are substantial and necessary in some way But yeah, to get back to the point, I don't understand how you can shit on those songs but then proclaim that Brooklyn Nights etc. were so much better omg that track in particular is at least equally basic and unimaginative

Some amazing sentences there. Glad I read this, thanks a lot for posting

But I already said it's flopping harder.. why does it take so long for you to get that I've long admitted those things omg how boring But like I said earlier: "I just think it's laughable for any LM to take pride in that when their fav is still outdone by that flopping bitch in total"

Like I literally said, to you even, because it's too early still Sure, then I'll be happy to see the CTTR to PI comparisons too Again, I don't care how hard someone is flopping compared to the other, both are underperforming, the end I get that Monsters want to save their pride by underscoring how much more badly Katy('s latest single) is doing (while she's still slaying Gaga overall but anyway) but that's just not interesting to me because CTTR showed Katy can still have a very successful single in this climate Her success does not depend on every single, she has more of a casual commercial following, and her slayage on YouTube shows that, so there's nothing to worry there. Gaga on the other hand

There's a difference though. I don't want you/other people to think that the comparison between FFS and MR mattered or something, I just brought it up 'cause I don't think the "country ballads can't smash" theory is right, that doesn't mean I want to talk about FFS and how that comparison might not apply etc. MTN She's been on a downward spiral ever since late 2011 which I think I've mentioned already. It's obvious that Katy's had a similar movement since 2014 but then again, she also had her best performing single ever and her best performing tour ever in that same year, so I don't think it's equivalent I've said it before in this thread: Katy has declined with the general decline of female pop (visible everywhere now), while Gaga was dropping like a fly way before that. Which makes it funny that people will bring up the "sales decline tho!!!" arguments when looking at Gaga's sales, but will refuse to do the same for any of her peers I've already acknowledged its US success plenty of times omg how is this still an argument I care more about global success, I think that should be obvious by now. I think that's too early to say before it's promo run is coming up I don't expect the song to smash, but then I also didn't expect CTTR to do as well as it eventually did. You seem to have this fantasy in your head that I think Katy is doing great when I've literally repeated that she's underperforming, even with CTTR But despite the sales and streaming flop that is BA people are still checking out this video and her old video's, are still buying and streaming her old work, and are obviously still keeping track of her when they can break an Adele comeback VEVO record That shows her enduring relevance to me, and I'm happy to see that, that's literally all. Well, of course, but I'm not "my fanbase" and other people's hypocrisy doesn't stop from being hypocrisy just because I'm hypocritical sometimes too, does it? I have no problem calling out Madonna fans for their bs (which has put me in trouble many times). My Rebel Heart lashings still get their knickers in a twist. Easy. Katy never pretended she was a grand artist who was above all of that commercial scheming Gaga on the other hand consistently pretended she was fundamentally uninterested in commercial success and the promotion that went with it, which led to the sadly popular notion that she's more "authentic" than her peers which she's obviously not Katy is a manufactured pop star who owns her brand, her team's tactics are not surprising on any level, and frankly, she often pulls off the humanitarian act 10x better than political activist Lady Gaga When Gaga brings her guitar (and a camera crew of course) to a homeless shelter for the gays whose issues she's ignored for years now to perform her latest discounted single, obviously I'm gonna have a laugh because that is fake bs and it's more aggravating than her peers' similar tactics because she and her fans honestly claim it's genuine and not driven by hunger for money About the US: I just think that when you once owned the global music market, it's silly to just look at one country years later to prove you're still something Every artist should be critiqued based on their own set standards. For Gaga fans to focus solely on the US after years of mocking other artists for being "local" is a travesty, the end. I have already long accepted that though, I just think that if Gaga broke Adele's VEVO record with that bombing single while still having a previous single doing well worldwide you would never make a big deal out of it Of course it's doing horribly in sales, but why would it be interesting to repeat that over and over? It's a lot more interesting (to me) to think about why it's doing so well on YouTube and not elsewhere and what that says about her brand (esp. compared to once reigning music video queen Lady Gaga who now can't get as many views as CTTR's lyric video on her latest US "hit" mv) But yes, BA is a flop, if you need it in black and white. I just think it's laughable for any LM to take pride in that when their fav is still outdone by that flopping bitch in total

Wtf why are you such a slow reader Of course you didn't say we shouldn't compare BA to anything, that was my argument lmao Whatever, you clearly don't know what's going on in this conversation.

Well, yeah it is, but that wasn't my argument lol, I brought up FFS to counter yours I'm not trying to compare it to anything. Obviously it's harder in general to slay with a ballad, but then she also flopped with so many up tempo dance songs these years that it's just far better imo to assume that people just don't care about her anymore Which is why I find this focus on MR as if it's some shining beacon, some proof of Gaga's enduring relevance, comical. It's just another underperforming single with an underperforming video in another underperforming era Just broke the VEVO record? Anyway, this is a funny section of your post, because I can easily counter with: if Katy performed like PI or MR the #KatyPerryisOVERParty threads would also be endless Which proves my point: none of those releases are impressive compared to the actual slaying tracks, but there is a difference in degree, and Katy is performing a lot better on overall platforms in general, incl. her old work That's just a simple fact to me, it's not even "defending" Katy for me, it's just laying out what's obvious. Criticizing Gaga with her lackluster sales is just boring, we've been doing that for years now It's just about exposing the double standards of LMs that I'm after. But then you can use your own logic to defend Katy: well, Katy was never a great album seller but that doesn't cancel out her other achievements Yawn. I didn't address it because it's just.. I mean, of course people weren't forced to buy Gaga's single But then don't use promo arguments against Katy either lol just be consistent. Also, you already know I think US sales are irrelevant in the big picture, so that's another reason why I ignored it Moderate hit, whatever, if that's a hit then CTTR was a smash (and PI was a huge flop) I still think it's funny how you're holding on to MR like a life raft. No, it does not change the fact that Gaga still can't compete with her peers, even after an acclaimed Superbowl performance

BA passed it already now, but anyway, just look at the statistics on YouTube lol, the proof is right there for ya

Did I or did I not literally say that we shouldn't be comparing BA to anything? My argument is that both Gaga and Katy are underperforming according to their standards, but Katy is doing far better overall, which makes it ridiculous for LMs to mock her success when they're enduring 10x worse And that argument stays strong with or without a focus on BA.

Like I said above, that comparison wasn't serious It's ludicrous to compare BA to anything still, it's too early. Compared to an actually successful single, both MR and BA look terrible, that's been my main argument, it's insane to pretend there's such a massive difference between the two, it's like y'all pretending Joanne did so much better than fucking Dangerous Woman of all albums to prove she was still a great album seller (while Bey was selling 2x) MR is not a successful single, esp. in Gaga's discography, and the amounts of promo it had, the end omg this is boring now

Why? After Taylor and Adele's hits and hits like FourFiveSeconds that's a pretty bogus statement to make imo There have been a lot of dance flops these years and a lot of hit ballads. So like I said, that comparison is too vague and unfair. Not you actually trying to compare them like it's serious The point of my comparison was that they're in the same basket performance wise, so if BA is a flop then Gaga's entire era has been (just as much of) a disaster (as Katy's so far) Do you have enough balls to admit that? The quality of a music video matters how, though? People don't click on a music video that's released the first day because they've herad it's good, they want to see the new Lady Gaga/Katy Perry video, end of It's about people caring about your releases, and a lot more people clearly care about Katy's, esp. looking at how amazingly well her old mv's are still doing. Also, if Gaga had the most views in 24h since Hello don't act like you wouldn't see that as a discussion ending receipt of Gaga's superior power in the game I can't speak for all them, but I've always been a casual fan of Katy and lately she's the only pop star who actually seems to fucking deliver, aside from Bey but where is that bitch now Me defending her has nothing to do with me being a Madonna fan, I'm sure you won't believe that but then I also have a hard time believing that you bashing Katy has nothing to do with the fact that she's Gaga's #1 competition A little transparent, don't you think? Again, FourFiveSeconds It's impossible to prove MR flopped in Europe because it's a country ballad (it's not even country lbr). And don't even start with "Rihanna has more star power" that's not her fault, and it's Gaga's fault she lost hers so that is not an excuse I mean, the fact that her other singles (since Applause, really) flopped in Europe too should ring a bell, no? But no, it's because it's country let's pretend Perfect Illusion wasn't released And how the fuck is TC slaying Europe when Katy's previous single is still massacring it? Again, if the tables were turned, omg. Double standards everywhere.

I'm only comparing the two because the OP did On the other hand I don't like this explaining away tactic. Like, you could do that forever. For example: no we can't compare BA to MR because one is a dance song and the other is a ballad blah blah Or, well, Katy released Rise as her comeback single so that really should be compared to PI and CTTR to MR after all etc. It is in actual fact insane to compare MR (which was promoted desperately on huge slots for months) to poor BA that has barely received any yet So if we're gonna follow your logic we should compare just the first two weeks of both MR and BA's releases And what do we see? - they both debuted at #76 on the Billboard Hot 100 - while debuting at the same position, Katy scored 3.000 more digital downloads than MR - BA debuted higher in the UK than MR (#40 and #48 respectively) - BA's music video received the most views in 24h out of any music video since Adele's Hello Don't act like MR was impressive at all. It flopped for half a year until the Superbowl, and even after that it still did absolutely poorly globally This myth of MR's "success" proving that this era wasn't a total disaster is annoying af.