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Judy Garland

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@Aion Everyone should see that movie at least once to get lessons on how to be lowkey bitchy. oprah2 (And for lessons on how to be outright bitchy, research Bette Davis' comments about Joan Crawford. ny1 "You're only supposed to say good things about the dead. Joan Crawford is dead - good." fall3 )

 

@Mint Welcome to the cult. oprah2

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@Last Midnight

 

There was such a great sense of style about stardom back then. There was an aura of mystery and glamour and a sense of these people being larger than life, when they were really just regular people in irregular circumstances. Today the lines between a star and their public are practically nonexistent, the facade has been ripped away.

 

Do we even have STARS anymore? A few, to be sure. But today we have more celebrities than stars. To my mind, a star is someone who achieves great renown by converting their talents into works of art. The word 'celebrity' is uglier and pulpier, though. It suggests someone who got the public's attention through less-than-respectable means and any works they create (acting, music, fashion and perfume labels) are not proper works of art for art's sake, but rather curios, souvenirs of their cult of personality.

 

What was that great line attributed to Judy... it was after Artie Shaw had eloped with Lana Turner and broken her heart. He invited her to the house for lunch some day and Judy allegedly replied, "Lana's a nice girl. But trying to have a conversation with her is like talking to a beautiful vase."

 

fall3.gif' alt='fall2'>

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@Aion Plus bitches today don't know how to throw shade. Bette Davis and Joan Crawford's barbs were legendary. And then there's the time Lauren Bacall was sleeping with Shelley Winters' husband. The convo basically went as such:

Lauren: I've been waiting for him for over an hour, where the hell is he?

Shelley: You're complaining because MY husband is late for a date with you?

Lauren: If he doesn't respect your marriage, why should I?

Shelley: You're right, he'll be right over. He'll be the guy with the bandaged head.

 

fall3

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@Aion Plus bitches today don't know how to throw shade. Bette Davis and Joan Crawford's barbs were legendary. And then there's the time Lauren Bacall was sleeping with Shelley Winters' husband. The convo basically went as such:

 

fall3

 

Or when Barbara Walters asked Lauren about Frank Sinatra in the 60s, approximately a decade after he abruptly ended their engagement and never spoke to her again. Lauren cut her off and said,

 

"Frank is as dead and dry as this floor."

 

Fucking DEAD. ny2

 

The artist on FOTP I stan most is Madonna, and I've drawn parallels between her and Joan Crawford in the past. Both are HUGE personalities, and those personas almost certainly outstripped their natural, traditional talents. But both used unshakable discipline and iron will to reach the absolute top of their respective fields. Both were committed to maintaining their status as first-degree stars and (say the gossips) devoted a great deal of time and energy to maintain themselves physically, all but refusing to surrender to the natural march of time. And time and time again, over the course of decades and after great professional stumbles, they mounted brilliant comebacks.

 

And you KNOW that one of Madonna's kids is going to write that fucking book after she dies. ny7.gif' alt='ny6'>.gif' alt='ny5'>

 

I've said it already and I'll say it again - Joan deserves a GREAT biography. I don't mean GREAT like "a fun read". I mean exhaustively researched, stellar writing, and a length that befits her epic life. Something that acknowledges her personal difficulties and demons with as little judgment as possible, while also exploring her extraordinary career in an amount of detail that would erase the need for any other Crawford books in the future. I wouldn't want anything less than 700 pages, honestly.

 

And they would have to use this for the cover:

 

Annex-Crawford-Joan-Eyes-DR-M.jpg

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@Aion Might be better to do it in two volumes. There's supposedly a REALLY good Barbara Stanwyck biography out now, but it's one of two or three the author is wanting to publish, and this first part is like 700 pages I think. I forget what it's called at the moment. fall3
 
Remember when Barbara Walters asked Kate Hepburn if she owned a skirt and she said "Yes, I'll wear it to your funeral." ny1
 
I'm waiting for one of Madonna's adopted African kids to write that book tbh. ny7.gif' alt='ny6'> <a href=http://fotpforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_ny7.gif' alt='ny6'>.gif' alt='ny5'>

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@Aion Everyone should see that movie at least once to get lessons on how to be lowkey bitchy. oprah2 (And for lessons on how to be outright bitchy, research Bette Davis' comments about Joan Crawford. ny1 "You're only supposed to say good things about the dead. Joan Crawford is dead - good." fall3 )

 

@Mint Welcome to the cult. oprah2

what is that bitchy movie creep1

 

i live for 20th century sass

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@Last Midnight

 

Those album uploads are splendid, I'll get in on that tonight.

 

It always irritates me that they didn't do proper movie soundtracks back then. Had they done one for A Star Is Born (excising incidental sounds like the screaming in Gotta Have Me Go With You, making Here's What I'm Here For a proper song, shortening up Someone At Last, etc.), it would be such a stellar album. Unfortunately nothing about that movie's release was done right. :(

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@Aion Columbia did do a proper soundtrack - they just never made a stereo mix. But it only had her songs, none of the underscore. The two deleted numbers come from the soundtrack master instead of the 1988 CD, where they were lifted directly from the film. And the part of GHMGWY with the screaming comes from the soundtrack master too. The rest of the musical numbers, the overture, and the finale come directly from the film track, though, as their presentations aren't dramatically affected by a lot of SFX.

 

Where Columbia failed with ASIB is not in not making a proper OST - it's in not thinking ahead and making a stereo mix. Stereo LP's didn't really become commonplace for a few more years, but they still coulda done it "just in case." um2 Or, better yet, Warner Bros. coulda just not chucked out the stereo recording sessions and then they could remix and remaster everything in stereo. lj1

 

It isn't just ASIB that has issues like this. Many many movies lack original materials and such. Jerks. lj1

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@Bionic Monster One time she was asked what she thought about her gay following and she said "I couldn't care less. I sing to people." gaga13

 

Has anyone ever heard the tapes she recorded as notes for the autobiography she never wrote? Some fans don't like that they're out there, but I have a fascination with them - they humanize her for me. There's several parts where she's angry and ranting ("Get The Hell Out Of My Life!"), some where she's laughing cuz she can't figure out how to work the machine ("Obvious Nazi Machine"), parts where she sounds like she's just taken 5 sleeping pills and yet is fighting to stay awake. You can find some of it on YouTube by searching "Judy Garland speaks."

 

She deserved so much better out of life. She deserved better people around her from the beginning. brit2

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@Bionic Monster One time she was asked what she thought about her gay following and she said "I couldn't care less. I sing to people." gaga13

 

Has anyone ever heard the tapes she recorded as notes for the autobiography she never wrote? Some fans don't like that they're out there, but I have a fascination with them - they humanize her for me. There's several parts where she's angry and ranting ("Get The Hell Out Of My Life!"), some where she's laughing cuz she can't figure out how to work the machine ("Obvious Nazi Machine"), parts where she sounds like she's just taken 5 sleeping pills and yet is fighting to stay awake. You can find some of it on YouTube by searching "Judy Garland speaks."

 

She deserved so much better out of life. She deserved better people around her from the beginning. brit2

I read a biography of her called "Judy" and the author of that book was helping her write the autobiography you're talking about. Sad it was never completed. And yes, Judy was so loving and caring, she just wanted to entertain. Louis B. Mayer and the whole MGM studio are what killed her, I believe, what with Louis calling her "his little hunchback," and the studio getting her hooked on pills. She never thought she was beautiful, which is so sad because she was one of the most beautiful women ever in Hollywood! 

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@Bionic Monster I recently discovered there was more than one collection of audios for more than one autobiography attempt. The ones released on CD as "Judy Garland Speaks" are from after her show ended, as she mentions in the first track having a collection of videotapes from the show, but there was also a collection of audios from an attempt to write one in 1960. I listened to part of one where she talked about her suicide attempt and how unbearable her mother had gotten. brit2 Total stage mother tbh, no wonder Judy was messed.

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@Bionic Monster I recently discovered there was more than one collection of audios for more than one autobiography attempt. The ones released on CD as "Judy Garland Speaks" are from after her show ended, as she mentions in the first track having a collection of videotapes from the show, but there was also a collection of audios from an attempt to write one in 1960. I listened to part of one where she talked about her suicide attempt and how unbearable her mother had gotten. brit2 Total stage mother tbh, no wonder Judy was messed.

Her mother was a witch. 

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Has anyone ever heard the tapes she recorded as notes for the autobiography she never wrote? Some fans don't like that they're out there, but I have a fascination with them - they humanize her for me. There's several parts where she's angry and ranting ("Get The Hell Out Of My Life!"), some where she's laughing cuz she can't figure out how to work the machine ("Obvious Nazi Machine"), parts where she sounds like she's just taken 5 sleeping pills and yet is fighting to stay awake. You can find some of it on YouTube by searching "Judy Garland speaks."

 

She deserved so much better out of life. She deserved better people around her from the beginning. 

 

I've heard those. They're pretty sad. I'm actually glad she never wrote a memoir for a few reasons - most celebrity memoirs released during that period tended to be pretty short, usually less than 250 pages, and were a little glossed over. Maybe she would have been the exception, but I'd rather a lucid, self-aware, stable Judy writing an epic recount. Gloria Swanson's memoir really helps set a tone - it came out around 1980 and it's 500+ pages and goes deep on both her life and her career.

 

It's haunting to think about the things Judy could have done had she found her inner strength, found her confidence early on. If she'd been able to stand up for herself and have greater control over her artistic path in those days at MGM. Imagine the performances (both musical and non-musical), imagine what A Star Is Born may have been had she been able to make it in the mid 1940s at MGM, at the height of her beauty and with the muscle of the world's greatest movie studio behind her. If she'd been given top-notch dramatic roles to show her true power and range as an actress (if she'd been given that role in Razor's Edge for instance, which won Anne Baxter an Oscar). If she'd gone to Broadway, if Irving Berlin or Rodgers and Hammerstein had written a show around her talents. A television series with its vision fully formed from the get-go, with a most healthy, relaxed, vibrant Judy singing her ass off every episode and just blowing all the competition out of the water. Man...

 

I read a biography of her called "Judy" and the author of that book was helping her write the autobiography you're talking about. Sad it was never completed. And yes, Judy was so loving and caring, she just wanted to entertain. Louis B. Mayer and the whole MGM studio are what killed her, I believe, what with Louis calling her "his little hunchback," and the studio getting her hooked on pills. She never thought she was beautiful, which is so sad because she was one of the most beautiful women ever in Hollywood! 

 

Is that 'Judy' by Gerold Frank? If so... I've read maybe four or five biographies about her, and that one is head and shoulders above the rest. It's (to me), everything a biography should be.

 

In her drafts for the autobiography, Judy says that L.B. used to go, "you know what makes this girl so special? She sings from the heart," and then his hand would wander onto her breast. Even in the Gerold Frank book, it's acknowledged that Judy sometimes told tall tales and re-wrote her history to suit her needs, so I always took that with a grain of salt.

 

I'm currently reading a Joan Crawford biography and in it she appeals to L.B. for help with better parts after being labeled 'Box Office Poison' and he says something to the effect of, "of course we'll help you, and the public loves you just like I love you, you're like a daughter to me." Joan apparently told someone later that "his hand would always find my right tit whenever he got to the word 'daughter'."

 

rih1

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I've heard those. They're pretty sad. I'm actually glad she never wrote a memoir for a few reasons - most celebrity memoirs released during that period tended to be pretty short, usually less than 250 pages, and were a little glossed over. Maybe she would have been the exception, but I'd rather a lucid, self-aware, stable Judy writing an epic recount. Gloria Swanson's memoir really helps set a tone - it came out around 1980 and it's 500+ pages and goes deep on both her life and her career.

 

It's haunting to think about the things Judy could have done had she found her inner strength, found her confidence early on. If she'd been able to stand up for herself and have greater control over her artistic path in those days at MGM. Imagine the performances (both musical and non-musical), imagine what A Star Is Born may have been had she been able to make it in the mid 1940s at MGM, at the height of her beauty and with the muscle of the world's greatest movie studio behind her. If she'd been given top-notch dramatic roles to show her true power and range as an actress (if she'd been given that role in Razor's Edge for instance, which won Anne Baxter an Oscar). If she'd gone to Broadway, if Irving Berlin or Rodgers and Hammerstein had written a show around her talents. A television series with its vision fully formed from the get-go, with a most healthy, relaxed, vibrant Judy singing her ass off every episode and just blowing all the competition out of the water. Man...

 

 

Is that 'Judy' by Gerold Frank? If so... I've read maybe four or five biographies about her, and that one is head and shoulders above the rest. It's (to me), everything a biography should be.

 

In her drafts for the autobiography, Judy says that L.B. used to go, "you know what makes this girl so special? She sings from the heart," and then his hand would wander onto her breast. Even in the Gerold Frank book, it's acknowledged that Judy sometimes told tall tales and re-wrote her history to suit her needs, so I always took that with a grain of salt.

 

I'm currently reading a Joan Crawford biography and in it she appeals to L.B. for help with better parts after being labeled 'Box Office Poison' and he says something to the effect of, "of course we'll help you, and the public loves you just like I love you, you're like a daughter to me." Joan apparently told someone later that "his hand would always find my right tit whenever he got to the word 'daughter'."

 

rih1

Finally someone who's read it! Yes it's the Gerold Frank one. I honestly don't feel the need to read another bio on her, that one was so candid and he actually KNEW her. In fact, I was just a casual fan before I read that. It literally made me a stan. One of my favorite biographies I've ever read.

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Finally someone who's read it! Yes it's the Gerold Frank one. I honestly don't feel the need to read another bio on her, that one was so candid and he actually KNEW her. In fact, I was just a casual fan before I read that. It literally made me a stan. One of my favorite biographies I've ever read.

 

It's really fantastic. And LENGTHY. I'm of a mind that it's better for a biography to have too much information than not enough. You want to be able to point to this one thing and say, "here it is, the ultimate source." Plus other biographies (Rainbow by Christopher Finch, Get Happy by Gerard Clarke), focus 2/3 or more of the books on the MGM period, and Judy is a really balanced look. Her movie years and concert years are given equal weight, and I really appreciate that.

 

It also (unlike Get Happy and the David Shipman book) doesn't go for prurient details. It's an honest but respectful portrait of an icon of song and screen. It doesn't hide her troubles and it doesn't make her look like a poor put-upon angel who never gave attitude or made bad choices. But it doesn't judge her for it either, it just presents the story as best it can. Liza Minnelli even said that it was the closest you could get to being there without actually being there.

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It's really fantastic. And LENGTHY. I'm of a mind that it's better for a biography to have too much information than not enough. You want to be able to point to this one thing and say, "here it is, the ultimate source." Plus other biographies (Rainbow by Christopher Finch, Get Happy by Gerard Clarke), focus 2/3 or more of the books on the MGM period, and Judy is a really balanced look. Her movie years and concert years are given equal weight, and I really appreciate that.

 

It also (unlike Get Happy and the David Shipman book) doesn't go for prurient details. It's an honest but respectful portrait of an icon of song and screen. It doesn't hide her troubles and it doesn't make her look like a poor put-upon angel who never gave attitude or made bad choices. But it doesn't judge her for it either, it just presents the story as best it can. Liza Minnelli even said that it was the closest you could get to being there without actually being there.

Yes I like that it showed that she was flawed, just like everyone else. The best ones show that it wasn't just mean old MGM (though they did play a big part), that she made her own decisions, sometimes not the best ones. But it has to be respectful, like you said. I don't want ALL the gory details um3 One fault n that book though is the fact that the author didn't tell the whole story about her father. I know it's an awful story, but it was a big part of Judy's life and it's odd he wouldn't include it, though it was published in 1975, so I guess I understand.

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