Senators Cruz and Sanders have been mathematically eliminated from the Presidential Nominations.

[Onika 23,143]

Just now, HeatSeeker said:

IKR?   Hillary vs. Trump is choosing the lesser of 2 evils.  And given Shillary's lies and dirty tricks used against Sanders, I almost secretly want her to lose.  

I think this movement will live on though, even if Bernie is not elected. The future of politics, our generation, will eventually win and we will have a better tomorrow...

 

 

Hey, fancy seeing you here!  

I understand where you're coming from, I literally can't fathom voting for either of them. Maybe 6 months ago you could've talked me into voting Hillary, but FUCK, with all of the downright vile shit she's said and done, especially lately, I can't. How can I, in good conscience, vote for somebody who politicized dead kids to try to smear their opponent? For someone who spends so much time admonishing Republican strategies, she sure as fuck isn't afraid to use them when it suits her. The real irony in that whole situation is that she approved the sale of uranium and weaponry to countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia (who just so happened to have just donated millions to the Clinton Foundation). How can you possibly even

I could go on and on, but I'll stop myself before I devolve into a full rant  

I know it will, the fact that he's polling above her nationally now shows that there's a shift happening. People are starting to see the things he's talking about, and that's incredibly important for the future. But fuck I wish we could've started fixing these problems now. Instead we'll kick the can down the road for another 4 years. I just hope we'll be having a very different conversation, and that things won't be irreversibly fucked, by then.

 

[QUINN 19,361]

[HeatSeeker 189]

3 minutes ago, Onika said:

Hey, fancy seeing you here!  

I understand where you're coming from, I literally can't fathom voting for either of them. Maybe 6 months ago you could've talked me into voting Hillary, but FUCK, with all of the downright vile shit she's said and done, especially lately, I can't. How can I, in good conscience, vote for somebody who politicized dead kids to try to smear their opponent? For someone who spends so much time admonishing Republican strategies, she sure as fuck isn't afraid to use them when it suits her. The real irony in that whole situation is that she approved the sale of uranium and weaponry to countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia (who just so happened to have just donated millions to the Clinton Foundation). How can you possibly even

I could go on and on, but I'll stop myself before I devolve into a full rant  

I know it will, the fact that he's polling above her nationally now shows that there's a shift happening. People are starting to see the things he's talking about, and that's incredibly important for the future. But fuck I wish we could've started fixing these problems now. Instead we'll kick the can down the road for another 4 years. I just hope we'll be having a very different conversation, and that things won't be irreversibly fucked, by then.

 

 

Gurl I will always be a part of FOTP :tehe:  I'm one of the remaining dinosaurs here

 

Oh Lord, do NOT get me started on all of Hillary's problems.  Like you, I could go on for hours, but just know that I agree with you 100%.  Her regime change tendencies (Iraq, Lybia, etc.), her vote for horrendous trade policies like N.A.F.T.A, her vote for the keystone pipeline, her support for fracking and lack of support for a carbon tax, her speeches to Wall St. which she's obviously not releasing because she pandered to them just like she's beholden to so many special interests that will prevent her from truly representing the needs of ordinary Americans...etc. etc. etc.

 

That's why I secretly want her to lose, so that we can have a disaster like Trump to get us to wake up and really rally behind a true progressive like Elizabeth Warren for the next election, and not some center-right corprotist. Hillary's not even trying to appeal to Sanders/progressives/independents, she's so ignorant and arrogant and out of touch...

 

And what sickens me the most is she's only winning because of how uninformed people really are, due largely because of the biased media.  Oh well, she may win today, but we will win soon.

[Nullll 22,072]

14 minutes ago, Onika said:

Hey, fancy seeing you here!  

I understand where you're coming from, I literally can't fathom voting for either of them. Maybe 6 months ago you could've talked me into voting Hillary, but FUCK, with all of the downright vile shit she's said and done, especially lately, I can't. How can I, in good conscience, vote for somebody who politicized dead kids to try to smear their opponent? For someone who spends so much time admonishing Republican strategies, she sure as fuck isn't afraid to use them when it suits her. The real irony in that whole situation is that she approved the sale of uranium and weaponry to countries like Russia and Saudi Arabia (who just so happened to have just donated millions to the Clinton Foundation). How can you possibly even

I could go on and on, but I'll stop myself before I devolve into a full rant  

I know it will, the fact that he's polling above her nationally now shows that there's a shift happening. People are starting to see the things he's talking about, and that's incredibly important for the future. But fuck I wish we could've started fixing these problems now. Instead we'll kick the can down the road for another 4 years. I just hope we'll be having a very different conversation, and that things won't be irreversibly fucked, by then.

 

My fear is that nothing will change under Hillary and after 4 years of the same shit many of the liberals are going to give up and the republicans will take back the White House in 2020.

[Nullll 22,072]

6 minutes ago, HeatSeeker said:

 

Gurl I will always be a part of FOTP :tehe:  I'm one of the remaining dinosaurs here

 

Oh Lord, do NOT get me started on all of Hillary's problems.  Like you, I could go on for hours, but just know that I agree with you 100%.  Her regime change tendencies (Iraq, Lybia, etc.), her vote for horrendous trade policies like N.A.F.T.A, her vote for the keystone pipeline, her support for fracking and lack of support for a carbon tax, her speeches to Wall St. which she's obviously not releasing because she pandered to them just like she's beholden to so many special interests that will prevent her from truly representing the needs of ordinary Americans...etc. etc. etc.

 

That's why I secretly want her to lose, so that we can have a disaster like Trump to get us to wake up and really rally behind a true progressive like Elizabeth Warren for the next election, and not some center-right corprotist. Hillary's not even trying to appeal to Sanders/progressives/independents, she's so ignorant and arrogant and out of touch...

 

And what sickens me the most is she's only winning because of how uninformed people really are, due largely because of the biased media.  Oh well, she may win today, but we will win soon.

I wish Elizabeth Warren would have run. She's remarkable and a breath of fresh air in this fucked up political word. She has been my pick as Hillary's VP but we all know it's going to be a boring old white guy to appeal to the republican base that won't vote for Trump. 

[Onika 23,143]

2 minutes ago, HeatSeeker said:

Gurl I will always be a part of FOTP :tehe:  I'm one of the remaining dinosaurs here

 

Oh Lord, do NOT get me started on all of Hillary's problems.  Like you, I could go on for hours, but just know that I agree with you 100%.  Her regime change tendencies (Iraq, Lybia, etc.), her vote for horrendous trade policies like N.A.F.T.A, her vote for the keystone pipeline, her support for fracking and lack of support for a carbon tax, her speeches to Wall St. which she's obviously not releasing because she pandered to them just like she's beholden to so many special interests that will prevent her from truly representing the needs of ordinary Americans...etc. etc. etc.

 

That's why I secretly want her to lose, so that we can have a disaster like Trump to get us to wake up and really rally behind a true progressive like Elizabeth Warren for the next election, and not some center-right corprotist. Hillary's not even trying to appeal to Sanders/progressives/independents, she's so ignorant and arrogant and out of touch...

 

And what sickens me the most is she's only winning because of how uninformed people really are, due largely because of the biased media.  Oh well, she may win today, but we will win soon.

 

I'm in the same boat. She's just such an outright horrendous candidate, and when people are like "So you're not going to vote for her in the general? You're going to let a Republican win?!" Like HELLO, she IS a fucking Republican. The difference (singular) is gay marriage. That's it. Every single other position she holds is 100% the exact same as Republicans. It is factually incorrect to label her a Democrat in any sense of the word. And the single biggest problem in politics today is money. She's going to do NOTHING for progressives there, and that is the one thing that has to happen before anything else can. Jesus fuck we are so fucked 

Honestly, if it weren't for his rhetoric, I would be 100% behind Trump, and that's a scary thing to say. But the fact of the matter is, he's overall a MORE progressive candidate than Hillary if you look at his actual policies   he wants to overturn CU, the importance of which literally cannot be understated  

It's true, I mean just look at the polls about their favorability. The entire election season has been Sanders constantly increasing as people learn about him, and her constantly decreasing. It looks like a fake graph with how perfectly it all lines up. The problem is, you have older "I'll vote blue no matter what" voters who don't follow the minutia of policy and debate, and will just vote for the frontrunner. The fact that she completely dismissed the question about what she'll do to appeal to Sanders' voters shows how much she does not give a single fuck about any of us. Hillary is in this race for Hillary, everyone else be damned. 

[Onika 23,143]

7 minutes ago, Tyler said:

My fear is that nothing will change under Hillary and after 4 years of the same shit many of the liberals are going to give up and the republicans will take back the White House in 2020.

I think (and hope) the opposite is going to happen. People are having their eyes opened about what really happens in politics today, and they're angry about it.

[Nicole Richie 3,132]

goodbye bernie

 

 

[Nick 374]

If Hillary doesn't get the minimum number of delegates needed to secure the nomination, we're going to be going to a contested convention, and Bernie could possibly take it there. It's not over yet. The media wants voters to think it's over so that Sanders voters don't go out, and Clinton can take more delegates. The fact is, even though Bernie only won one state last night, he still picked up a decent amount of delegates, and superdelegates are slowly saying they'll vote for him at the convention. Superdelegates ALWAYS go with the candidate who won in their district. It's never happened the opposite way. They wouldn't get re elected if they didn't go with their voters choice. They'd be kicked out during the next cycle.

However, with that all being said and done, I will be gladly voting for Hillary in November if she gets the nomination. Yes, I understand the hesitations and problems people have with her. I do not agree with many of the tactics she has employed this cycle, I do not agree with many of her past decisions, and she has lied multiple times. However, i'm not going to ignore the many good things she has done throughout her career. While she's clearly a moderate, I think calling her a Republican is unfair. She wants to expand Obamacare, raise the minimum wage, have guaranteed paid family leave, debt free college, among many other positions that the GOP simply doesn't hold. I also don't fault her for not coming on board for gay marriage until a few years ago. Bernie wasn't on board with it until a few years ago too. He only endorsed civil unions. No major politician was on board with it until recently. 

This election is too crucial for Trump to get it. I'm scared of anyone who says "Let's have Trump win it so he'll fuck things up and we'll get a progressive next time." Absolutely not. If Trump is in office, corrupt money in politics and economic reform are going to be the LAST things on our minds. We are going to have to worry about having seven different revolutions instead of just one. He will completely destroy our foreign relations, give huge tax breaks to the corporations and the wealthy, appoint a Supreme Court justice who will try and overturn gay marriage, etc. It's too much to risk. I'd rather have four years of a slightly more liberal Obama than have four years of a man who wants our soldiers to commit war crimes, ban Muslims from entering our country, build a wall, and completely destroy this country.

Not just that, but his supporters are dangerous. It's not only Trump's positions that are dangerous, it's the way he rallies his voters. There's violence at his rallies, people getting beat up, KKK members endorsing him. I'm more worried about his voters rising up and causing a modern day genocide in this country than anything else. A Trump presidency would validate them, and I don't think he'd do a damn thing to stop them.

Is Hillary the best choice? No. Is she better than Trump in every single way? Yes.

[HeatSeeker 189]

29 minutes ago, Tyler said:

I wish Elizabeth Warren would have run. She's remarkable and a breath of fresh air in this fucked up political word. She has been my pick as Hillary's VP but we all know it's going to be a boring old white guy to appeal to the republican base that won't vote for Trump. 

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that she didn't endorse Bernie when she clearly agrees with his views more than Hillary's.  But this is the problem with superdelegates; they're too afraid of the Clinton machine to vote against them because of how much power they have.  

24 minutes ago, Onika said:

 

I'm in the same boat. She's just such an outright horrendous candidate, and when people are like "So you're not going to vote for her in the general? You're going to let a Republican win?!" Like HELLO, she IS a fucking Republican. The difference (singular) is gay marriage. That's it. Every single other position she holds is 100% the exact same as Republicans. It is factually incorrect to label her a Democrat in any sense of the word. And the single biggest problem in politics today is money. She's going to do NOTHING for progressives there, and that is the one thing that has to happen before anything else can. Jesus fuck we are so fucked 

Honestly, if it weren't for his rhetoric, I would be 100% behind Trump, and that's a scary thing to say. But the fact of the matter is, he's overall a MORE progressive candidate than Hillary if you look at his actual policies   he wants to overturn CU, the importance of which literally cannot be understated  

It's true, I mean just look at the polls about their favorability. The entire election season has been Sanders constantly increasing as people learn about him, and her constantly decreasing. It looks like a fake graph with how perfectly it all lines up. The problem is, you have older "I'll vote blue no matter what" voters who don't follow the minutia of policy and debate, and will just vote for the frontrunner. The fact that she completely dismissed the question about what she'll do to appeal to Sanders' voters shows how much she does not give a single fuck about any of us. Hillary is in this race for Hillary, everyone else be damned. 

Yeah, it's funny when Hillary calls Bernie a "one issue candidate" when this one issue-money out of politics-affects ALL OTHER ISSUES!  Nothing can change unless we get money out of politics and sellout candidates like Hillary will never do that.

[Nicole Richie 3,132]

5 minutes ago, Nick said:

If Hillary doesn't get the minimum number of delegates needed to secure the nomination, we're going to be going to a contested convention, and Bernie could possibly take it there. It's not over yet. The media wants voters to think it's over so that Sanders voters don't go out, and Clinton can take more delegates. The fact is, even though Bernie only won one state last night, he still picked up a decent amount of delegates, and superdelegates are slowly saying they'll vote for him at the convention. Superdelegates ALWAYS go with the candidate who won in their district. It's never happened the opposite way. They wouldn't get re elected if they didn't go with their voters choice. They'd be kicked out during the next cycle.

However, with that all being said and done, I will be gladly voting for Hillary in November if she gets the nomination. Yes, I understand the hesitations and problems people have with her. I do not agree with many of the tactics she has employed this cycle, I do not agree with many of her past decisions, and she has lied multiple times. However, i'm not going to ignore the many good things she has done throughout her career. While she's clearly a moderate, I think calling her a Republican is unfair. She wants to expand Obamacare, raise the minimum wage, have guaranteed paid family leave, debt free college, among many other positions that the GOP simply doesn't hold. I also don't fault her for not coming on board for gay marriage until a few years ago. Bernie wasn't on board with it until a few years ago too. He only endorsed civil unions. No major politician was on board with it until recently. 

This election is too crucial for Trump to get it. I'm scared of anyone who says "Let's have Trump win it so he'll fuck things up and we'll get a progressive next time." Absolutely not. If Trump is in office, corrupt money in politics and economic reform are going to be the LAST things on our minds. We are going to have to worry about having seven different revolutions instead of just one. He will completely destroy our foreign relations, give huge tax breaks to the corporations and the wealthy, appoint a Supreme Court justice who will try and overturn gay marriage, etc. It's too much to risk. I'd rather have four years of a slightly more liberal Obama than have four years of a man who wants our soldiers to commit war crimes, ban Muslims from entering our country, build a wall, and completely destroy this country.

Not just that, but his supporters are dangerous. It's not only Trump's positions that are dangerous, it's the way he rallies his voters. There's violence at his rallies, people getting beat up, KKK members endorsing him. I'm more worried about his voters rising up and causing a modern day genocide in this country than anything else. A Trump presidency would validate them, and I don't think he'd do a damn thing to stop them.

Is Hillary the best choice? No. Is she better than Trump in every single way? Yes.

yes yes yes

[HeatSeeker 189]

^ Well Bernie polls better against Trump than Hillary...not to mention Hillary virtually ties with Cruz and loses to Kaisich (scary!) whereas BERNIE BEATS THEM ALL.

 

This is fact...look it up

[Nicole Richie 3,132]

2 minutes ago, HeatSeeker said:

^ Well Bernie polls better against Trump than Hillary...not to mention Hillary virtually ties with Cruz and loses to Kaisich (scary!) whereas BERNIE BEATS THEM ALL.

 

This is fact...look it up

but what is also coming to as a fact now is hillary will be the nominee and what Bernie should be doing is supporting her and backing her, if he cares for the country and the people who voted for him, he will be encouraging them to vote for Hillary,once he drops out or loses, theres no reason to further separate the democratic party any more. 

[Onika 23,143]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

While she's clearly a moderate, I think calling her a Republican is unfair. She wants to expand Obamacare, raise the minimum wage, have guaranteed paid family leave, debt free college, among many other positions that the GOP simply doesn't hold. I also don't fault her for not coming on board for gay marriage until a few years ago. Bernie wasn't on board with it until a few years ago too. He only endorsed civil unions. No major politician was on board with it until recently. 

How is it unfair? She's an interventionist, will absolutely never in a million years push for campaign finance reform, has voted/campaigned in favor of every job-outsourcing trade deal that's come across her desk, I'll be surprised if she gets the minimum wage to even $10, she's provided exactly zero details on how she plans on "expanding Obamacare" (not to mention, "expanding" it without going full single payer does NOBODY any good). And please, for the love of god, look into her debt free college plan. It's the exact same system we have in place now, except for the debt forgiveness -- which gets taxed as income, so good luck paying that bill from the IRS.

Bernie has been publicly in favor of gay rights for decades. He did not explicitly use the term "gay marriage" until the 2000's I believe, but at that point you're just arguing semantics. He voted in favor of pro-gay measures every single time. He voted against DOMA. He campaigned in favor of a motion that granted same sex couples the exact same rights as straight couples in the 90's. You cannot even remotely compare him and Clinton when it comes to gay rights, there's no contest at all, and trying to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.

As I said, I do not endorse Trump. I said that he would have my vote if it weren't for his obviously-problematic rhetoric, which makes a big difference.

1 minute ago, HeatSeeker said:

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that she didn't endorse Bernie when she clearly agrees with his views more than Hillary's.  But this is the problem with superdelegates; they're too afraid of the Clinton machine to vote against them because of how much power they have.  

Yeah, it's funny when Hillary calls Bernie a "one issue candidate" when this one issue-money out of politics-affects ALL OTHER ISSUES!  Nothing can change unless we get money out of politics and sellout candidates like Hillary will never do that.

Precisely! He's not a one-issue candidate to begin with, but if he was, his one issue is the first domino that has to fall before we can do anything else. If I had to pick one, that would be mine too.

[Onika 23,143]

3 minutes ago, Nicole Richie said:

but what is also coming to as a fact now is hillary will be the nominee and what Bernie should be doing is supporting her and backing her, if he cares for the country and the people who voted for him, he will be encouraging them to vote for Hillary,once he drops out or loses, theres no reason to further separate the democratic party any more. 

This rhetoric is ridiculous. If pointing out facts about someone's record is considered a danger to the party, I have some news for you -- the blame falls squarely on the people voting for her. The Democrats had an opportunity to elect somebody without those skeletons, and they chose not to. Anything that happens from now on is their fault, not Bernie's. Not to mention, if she can't weather his "attacks" (which are simply facts, not really attacks, by the way), how do you expect her to fare when she faces Trump? Do you think he's going to go easy? No, he's going to be willing to call her out on her bullshit far more than Bernie ever did.

Good luck with that.

[HeatSeeker 189]

4 minutes ago, Nicole Richie said:

but what is also coming to as a fact now is hillary will be the nominee and what Bernie should be doing is supporting her and backing her, if he cares for the country and the people who voted for him, he will be encouraging them to vote for Hillary,once he drops out or loses, theres no reason to further separate the democratic party any more. 

Bernie has already said he will do whatever is necessary to make sure a Republican doesn't end up winning the White House, especially Trump.

 

Now it is extremely hypocritical of Hillary supporters to tell Bernie to back down when Hillary didn't stop her campaign in 2008 until the July convention, when it was already mathematically impossible for her to win (more so than Bernie!). Bernie shouldn't back down now because he and his supporters will continue to push progressive agendas, informing the public of what really goes on in politics and how and why we should change the status quo to favor ordinary Americans as opposed to doing what the lobbyists and corporations and wealthy donors well politicians want.

 

The longer he stays on, the higher chance that Americans will rally behind a higher minimum wage, an end to these trade policies that have cost Americans MILLIONS of jobs, affordable college education, universal healthcare, an end to unnecessary wars, criminal justice reform, being serious about climate change, wealth an income inequality, overturning Citizens United, etc.

 

These aren't "pie-in-the-sky/socialist" visions.  These are actual policies other western countries have already shown are possible.  And America deserves them too.

[Nick 374]

19 minutes ago, HeatSeeker said:

^ Well Bernie polls better against Trump than Hillary...not to mention Hillary virtually ties with Cruz and loses to Kaisich (scary!) whereas BERNIE BEATS THEM ALL.

 

This is fact...look it up

You're preaching to the choir here. I'm voting for Bernie in my primary. I'm pro-Bernie up until the nomination is decided, and if he doesn't get it, i'm going with Hillary.

13 minutes ago, Onika said:

Bernie has been publicly in favor of gay rights for decades. He did not explicitly use the term "gay marriage" until the 2000's I believe, but at that point you're just arguing semantics. He voted in favor of pro-gay measures every single time. He voted against DOMA. He campaigned in favor of a motion that granted same sex couples the exact same rights as straight couples in the 90's. You cannot even remotely compare him and Clinton when it comes to gay rights, there's no contest at all, and trying to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Trust me, I know Bernie's awesome pro-LGBT record. One of the reasons i'm voting for him. I'm just saying that he wasn't in favor of marriage, and he wanted it left up to the states. Hillary had the exact same position, full benefits and rights within civil unions, but leave marriage to the states, although she was touting the traditional marriage thing for a while. 

I really am no huge supporter of Hillary. While i'll gladly vote for her if she's the nominee, that's only because i'm deathly afraid of everything Trump will do. No matter Hillary's faults, they don't compare to his. Bernie cannot and will not win on a third party ticket. That's just the reality of our fucked up two party system. Honestly, more than anything I wish Elizabeth Warren had run this cycle.

[Onika 23,143]

4 minutes ago, HeatSeeker said:

Bernie has already said he will do whatever is necessary to make sure a Republican doesn't end up winning the White House, especially Trump.

 

Now it is extremely hypocritical of Hillary supporters to tell Bernie to back down when Hillary didn't stop her campaign in 2008 until the July convention, when it was already mathematically impossible for her to win (more so than Bernie!). Bernie shouldn't back down now because he and his supporters will continue to push progressive agendas, informing the public of what really goes on in politics and how and why we should change the status quo to favor ordinary Americans as opposed to doing what the lobbyists and corporations and wealthy donors well politicians want.

 

The longer he stays on, the higher chance that Americans will rally behind a higher minimum wage, an end to these trade policies that have cost Americans MILLIONS of jobs, affordable college education, universal healthcare, an end to unnecessary wars, criminal justice reform, being serious about climate change, wealth an income inequality, overturning Citizens United, etc.

 

These aren't "pie-in-the-sky/socialist" visions.  These are actual policies other western countries have already shown are possible.  And America deserves them too.

 

The real irony is when people from Canada, the UK, Germany, etc. try the "pie in the sky" line, while simultaneously enjoying the benefits of the exact same policies

[Nicole Richie 3,132]

whatever i'm moving to denmark 

[HeatSeeker 189]

3 minutes ago, Onika said:

 

The real irony is when people from Canada, the UK, Germany, etc. try the "pie in the sky" line, while simultaneously enjoying the benefits of the exact same policies

And it is just SO RICH that people in the media constantly bark at Bernie about "how are you gonna pay for this?" when 1.) he already has shown reasonable, concrete ways he will pay for them and 2.) when nobody asks Republicans and Hawkish dems like Hillary how they are going to pay for unnecessary, ineffective interventionist wars they have planned. It's funny how we have money for that but not money to invest in the American people!