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I Feel Sorry For Monsters.

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2 hours ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

No, you used ONE example of becoming hit despite radio support and that was HUNG UP which was snubbed only in US but charted high because of high digital downloads. And HU was hardly HIT in US.

 

What's pity is excuse 'it's not hit because people don't like it', if living for love was played around the world as much as HU you think that it wouldn't have been hit? But hey, it had 700 spins in US for 7 days, it had its chance, right.

I don't get the "it charted high due to digital sales" excuse, because...duh? that means that despite being blocked on the radio it reached the #7 position (while Living For Love failed to enter the top 100) and sold over 1.2m copies (and that's according to 2010 figures, I assume over the course of 6+ years it sold even more). It didn't reach #1 because it didn't have the radio support, but it still had enough sales to push it to #1 if it had the same radio support as lets say Hollaback Girl which sold the same amount as Hung Up and is a #1 BB top 100 song. So don't tell me Hung Up was not a hit in the US, because over a million digital downloads in 2005 is a fantastic number considering the digital age was soldified only in 2008~.

And I also don't get your excuse that your industry has changed, now we have YouTube - where Living For Love did horribly and we have Spotify -where it did bad as well. A song that has a unique appeal by such a high profile artist won't just get ignored on iTunes, Spotify, Youtube and Radio. It's clear the the audience didn't see anything interesting in it and radio stations didn't see any potential in it as well. It's not a bad song, It's actually my favorite on the album (and particularly the only song I still like on the album), but it did not offer anything interesting to the social and sonical dynamic of 2015 and was an underwhelming song in a sea of impressive, more appealing releases. And guess what? that's exactly what happened to Perfect Illusion, but you're too egoistic to admit that. Of course you're comfortable with trashing Gaga and saying her songs are flopping because they're bad, but when it comes to Madonna you have to find pity excuses.

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1 hour ago, Earth Ripper said:

Time to take this bitch down permanently moo6

@H.O.N.E.Y on p. 6: "if this album was released by some flop like Carly Rae or a new artist, it would get endless praise' 

Me on p. 6: 'I just really don't agree lol. I think the exact opposite - that album is only tolerated because it's Madge'

(read below)

Go back to my posts. I never said such a thing. This was one of my first posts about the issue:

'Imo both albums are terrible ... though everyone's entitled to their own taste'

'I don't think there's any objective basis on which you can say one of them is better than the other' (p. 6, about RH and ARTPOP)

So no, I never pretended anyone was basic and had low expectations and standards, I just presented my own pov about the album just like H.O.N.E.Y. did in the same language! Don't forget that his first reply to me was written in the same "opinion presented as fact" manner! Yet we both agreed that we were both entitled to each other's opinion and we both appreciated each other's posts:

H.O.N.E.Y. on p. 6: "appreciate the effort, but I have to disagree, even though you are entitled to YOUR opinion"

So yes, we were both talking about our opinion as if it matched reality, but we had also agreed that we were talking about mere opinions and that we respected each other's pov nat1 You only attacked me and not H.O.N.E.Y. for talking in the exact same way I was because I didn't share your opinion and you just couldn't handle it because you are a fucking bitch.

I dare you to go back to my posts and find any statement that corresponds to the accusations in your latest reply.

I don't know what that means (dodge RH drags while I'm dragging it?) but if it's an accusation about me constantly dragging the album in here, that's only because you and H.O.N.E.Y. couldn't handle me casually saying I didn't like the album in a post that wasn't negative about Madge at all ny7 Like I've repeated a million fucking times. You two started this conversation about RH, not me.

Literal quote from you on p. 5: "RH is 'shit' for Madonna's standards" tea2

I know that in the same post you said that it's not a bad album and that it's still better than ARTPOP but you still said it wasn't a good album for Madonna's standards, so that still doesn't explain why you took such an extreme offense with my identical statement (except that I thought ARTPOP was better, though also bad).

I've literally been denying that from p. 6 onwards. I both don't like the album on its own and because it's a Madonna album and it's not up to her standards. I'm sure I wrote that at least 4x in response to you so can you please fucking read and remember it this time

Again, that's not true. And I want you to finally offer some concrete examples of that, you motherfucker. I did never say something like that hottie1 Meanwhile these are some the comments you threw in my face here:

- "Your ideas about Artpop are nothing but fiction that is not worth my time"

- "You're simply too delusional and pressed, probably also just jumped on hate bandwagon during this era"

- "you were one of those 'i hate 10s madonna and that makes me better than you'" (immediately debunked, which you ignored)

- "I'm not delusional and full of myself like you."

- "I'm not going to pretend to be listening deep avant-garde experimental shit"

- "There goes your credibility on anything" (about me liking Madonna-related things that you didn't)

And to top it off: numerous examples of you presenting your opinion as facts, a hypocrisy I've mentioned over 10x which you still haven't addressed:

- "You're only judging RH like that becuse of her catalog. That's a fact." (your first reply to me)

- "unlike Art pop, RH is NOT outdated overproduced EDM mess and you can actually hear that with your ears"

"you wouldn't be saying that shit if someone else released it as debut album"

- "You can like Artpop all you want, but overproduced outdated EDM music and shitty lyrics are facts"

To respond to those in your own exact words (p. 8): "And once again you are trying to SHOVE your opinion down our throats and sell it as a fact."

Why can you do what I can't, fucking explain that.

tay2

So everything I clarified here:

- I did not come in this thread like I was better than everyone else and I never used my dislike of RH to attack people personally (incl. Madonna), so your repeated reason for quoting me remains absolutely obsolete
- You did come in this thread like you were better than everyone else for your opinion (which is a fact apparently) and used your opinions to attack people personally, both Gaga and Madonna fans - the highlight of which was you slamming me for liking certain Madonna things you didn't, something I've never done
- the whole conversation started because H.O.N.E.Y. and you couldn't handle me saying I didn't like RH in passing
- everything you've accused me of, you have done a million times better in this very thread and you have continued to ignore me addressing that like a fucking scared pussy

sha1 

Now can you fucking finally stop acting like I came in here all "OMG RH SUCKS AND IT'S ONLY TOLERATED BECAUSE IT'S MADONNA YOU BASIC BITCHESSS IT'S SHIT AND EVERYONE WHO LIKES IT IS DEAF" because I didn't and even that comment you despised so much ("it's only tolerated because it's Madonna") was part of a pleasant, respectful conversation with someone who agreed that we were all entitled to our own opinions rih14 So shut the fuck up.

DO YOU FUCKING SEE ' ' around word SHIT???

 

Notice how you lied again, you said

- So even if you hate everything Madonna did after 2010 (like me ... )

and then you changed story...

 

You also said this

- just imagine RH having been made by an unknown pop artist and you instantly see how it's unforgivably basic and unimaginative... that's even more embarrassing

- that album is only tolerated because it's Madge

- I expected critics to attack her about the utter basicness of the songs

- I just think Madonna is capable of doing a lot better and a big portion of music critics and fans somehow let it slide for stupid reasons

- embraced for being even more basic

 

And this is when i realized that you were not so bright

- Questioning someone's status as a fan because he doesn't like one album seems like an attack, right?

I quoted you and asked were you ever a fan because as a fan you would've known that her music was never tolerated because she is Madonna.

But nooo, somehow you saw that as 'you are not fan because you don't like RH' and you lost your shit and started giving shitty excuses.

 

But let me continue with things that you have said

- people have already settled with subpar quality from her as an artist ... then you bitched about RH not being judged enough....

- There's no other explanation for that other than people tolerating basicness all of a sudden, 'cause the music only became more and more basic

- You continue insisting that RH is proof of Madonna's superiority - Except i never did that and i clearly said many times that it's not one of her best albumslmfao1

- I think that critics and fans tolerated a new level of unimpressiveness musically, lyrically and visually

- than wondered how RH was appreciated more than some of her unrewarded previous work

- music critics were less hard on Madge

 

also you posted this probably 20 times trying to convince everyone how whole conversations was about this (and called me idiot for liking RH in the meantime, and few more times after that)

And legit this whole discussion is all about Sebastian not being able to admit that it's possible that people just genuinely don't like RH

And you tried to bring other Madonna fans/members into this by saying how they also don't like the album but did you see me quoting them for that?

 

Sit your fucking ass down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/13/2016 at 1:52 PM, Li'l Sebastian said:

DO YOU FUCKING SEE ' ' around word SHIT???

 

Notice how you lied again, you said

- So even if you hate everything Madonna did after 2010 (like me ... )

and then you changed story...

 

You also said this

- just imagine RH having been made by an unknown pop artist and you instantly see how it's unforgivably basic and unimaginative... that's even more embarrassing

- that album is only tolerated because it's Madge

- I expected critics to attack her about the utter basicness of the songs

- I just think Madonna is capable of doing a lot better and a big portion of music critics and fans somehow let it slide for stupid reasons

- embraced for being even more basic

 

And this is when i realized that you were not so bright

- Questioning someone's status as a fan because he doesn't like one album seems like an attack, right?

I quoted you and asked were you ever a fan because as a fan you would've known that her music was never tolerated because she is Madonna.

But nooo, somehow you saw that as 'you are not fan because you don't like RH' and you lost your shit and started giving shitty excuses.

 

But let me continue with things that you have said

- people have already settled with subpar quality from her as an artist ... then you bitched about RH not being judged enough....

- There's no other explanation for that other than people tolerating basicness all of a sudden, 'cause the music only became more and more basic

- You continue insisting that RH is proof of Madonna's superiority - Except i never did that and i clearly said many times that it's not one of her best albumslmfao1

- I think that critics and fans tolerated a new level of unimpressiveness musically, lyrically and visually

- than wondered how RH was appreciated more than some of her unrewarded previous work

- music critics were less hard on Madge

 

also you posted this probably 20 times trying to convince everyone how whole conversations was about this (and called me idiot for liking RH in the meantime, and few more times after that)

And legit this whole discussion is all about Sebastian not being able to admit that it's possible that people just genuinely don't like RH

And you tried to bring other Madonna fans/members into this by saying how they also don't like the album but did you see me quoting them for that?

 

Sit your fucking ass down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

boy just stop

missny-frustrated.gif

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1 hour ago, Jjang said:

I don't get the "it charted high due to digital sales" excuse, because...duh? that means that despite being blocked on the radio it reached the #7 position (while Living For Love failed to enter the top 100) and sold over 1.2m copies (and that's according to 2010 figures, I assume over the course of 6+ years it sold even more). It didn't reach #1 because it didn't have the radio support, but it still had enough sales to push it to #1 if it had the same radio support as lets say Hollaback Girl which sold the same amount as Hung Up and is a #1 BB top 100 song. So don't tell me Hung Up was not a hit in the US, because over a million digital downloads in 2005 is a fantastic number considering the digital age was soldified only in 2008~.

And I also don't get your excuse that your industry has changed, now we have YouTube - where Living For Love did horribly and we have Spotify -where it did bad as well. A song that has a unique appeal by such a high profile artist won't just get ignored on iTunes, Spotify, Youtube and Radio. It's clear the the audience didn't see anything interesting in it and radio stations didn't see any potential in it as well. It's not a bad song, It's actually my favorite on the album (and particularly the only song I still like on the album), but it did not offer anything interesting to the social and sonical dynamic of 2015 and was an underwhelming song in a sea of impressive, more appealing releases. And guess what? that's exactly what happened to Perfect Illusion, but you're too egoistic to admit that. Of course you're comfortable with trashing Gaga and saying her songs are flopping because they're bad, but when it comes to Madonna you have to find pity excuses.

- Hollaback girl sold around 3,1m

- Chart rules are obviously not the same anymore, have you heard about STREAMING that totally changed charts for worse when it comes to artists who are DEAD ON RADIOS and weak on STREAMING services? And how hard it is now to debut HIGH? While that wasn't the case 10 years ago when every single song she released went top 10 in UK and almost everywhere in Europe.

- It didn't sell 1,2m in 2005, it sold that much in 5 years.

 

Not you acting like only SPECIAL songs are smashing these days lmfao1

And not you putting words in my mouth lmfao1 gaga is still fucking young and not seen as veteran and old artist who is almost 60, there are plenty of artists her age succeeding on charts and radios and there are none Madonna's age doing that.

 

Only 2 artists had hits in US this decade, JLO who was 42 when OTF was released, and Sia who is almost 41 and you're telling me that not one artists artist over 40 beside them released something interesting, or good enough to be successful? Since when it's all about quality? I mean you would just use any pity excuse...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

Notice how you lied again, you said

- So even if you hate everything Madonna did after 2010 (like me ... )

and then you changed story...

First of all, again?

Second of all, I was being general and quick omg what would that LM have cared that I liked a few performances, songs and outfits post-2010? moo6 The point of me bringing up I didn't like recent Madonna was that... you know what, not even gonna repeat it.

1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

You also said this

- just imagine RH having been made by an unknown pop artist and you instantly see how it's unforgivably basic and unimaginative... that's even more embarrassing

- that album is only tolerated because it's Madge

- I expected critics to attack her about the utter basicness of the songs

- I just think Madonna is capable of doing a lot better and a big portion of music critics and fans somehow let it slide for stupid reasons

- embraced for being even more basic

So? What does that mean? That was what I was talking about with H.O.N.E.Y. (who agreed, alongside me, that we disagreed but also respected each other's opinions) and you butted in and then I repeated some more of my thoughts, repeating all the way through that that was just the way I saw things. Who cares that I see it that way? interesting1 Do you really care that much about my personal take on the last two years of Madonna's career? Esp. when I say it's just my opinion? ayumi1 Who's the pressed one, really? The one who's been slandering me for a few opinions or the one who only started sharing those opinions because he was pushed?

1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

And this is when i realized that you were not so bright

- Questioning someone's status as a fan because he doesn't like one album seems like an attack, right?

I quoted you and asked were you ever a fan because as a fan you would've known that her music was never tolerated because she is Madonna.

But nooo, somehow you saw that as 'you are not fan because you don't like RH' and you lost your shit and started giving shitty excuses.

That is questioning my status as a fan though.. literally aretha1 It doesn't matter that you didn't mean it, you said, twice, that you thought it was hard to accept that I was a fan because, according to you (paraphrasing now) I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about when I mentioned things about her career ari1 That + you saying I lost all my credibility because I liked some recent things Madonna did (which you didn't like apparently) and saying you always (crucial to annihilating this point you made lol) knew I was a recent Madonna hater who delighted in acting superior because he didn't like post-2010's Madonna exactly shows your arrogant and wannabe superior behavior that you're ironically accusing me of like you're not the pro at meg1

1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

- You continue insisting that RH is proof of Madonna's superiority - Except i never did that and i clearly said many times that it's not one of her best albumslmfao1

Talk about pulling things out of a context. I said that in relation to my original point: that I was tired of Madonna fans falling into the trap of LMs: bringing up her recent work to disqualify reasonable comments about Gaga as if all Madonna stans believe her recent work is brilliant oprah13 You didn't claim that RH was an amazing album, but you did make various claims about it shitting on ARTPOP as an album and being obviously superior brit13 Thereby giving even more ammo to LMs who can ignore quality criticism of Gaga by just toying around with easily played Madonna stans who believe RH is an album worth fighting about, like she doesn't have a ton of albums that are a lot better played to compare her to Gaga in terms of quality (which was literally the closing remark of my first RH-related post here).

So yeah, that is what I was talking about, asshole, and the fact that you don't even get it is proof of you not even caring about what I was originally saying in here and why I mentioned RH at all ew2

1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

(and called me idiot for liking RH in the meantime, and few more times after that)

And legit this whole discussion is all about Sebastian not being able to admit that it's possible that people just genuinely don't like RH

lmfao that's the example of me bringing you down or something? fall1 Genius.

That is what the whole discussion was about. I wrote I didn't like RH because I thought it was basic in general ànd because it was subpar to her other work and you jumped on me to say that I had bs reasons for not liking it. That's how this all began, silly gaga12 That comment was also about you preferring a wild theory about Madonna being systematically boycotted by critics (well, you backtracked on that after being confronted with RH reviews) and the industry over a simple theory of people just not liking the music enough to buy it (which tied into our discussion about me not liking the album).

1 hour ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

And you tried to bring other Madonna fans/members into this by saying how they also don't like the album but did you see me quoting them for that?

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I didn't bring anyone in here deliberately or whatever. I know you started quoting me for my reasons for not liking RH and what I think of the reception of the album (both of which you think is absolute bs), but I've clarified over and over again that it was just my opinion and that I'm not pretending my opinion is a fact (something, even after those many repetitions, you still deny) and that I didn't want to talk about RH until deliberately pressured by H.O.N.E.Y. and you mad6 Which automatically cancels out all of your "you want to bring Madonna and her fans down"; "you jumped on the hate bandwagon"; "you're obsessed with hating that album" comments jj5

Just face it, kid. I had no bad intentions, I started a conversation with another member (H.O.N.E.Y.) on good terms, I know my opinion is just an opinion (but I do have arguments for it, and if I'm asked about them, I will share them), and I'm not someone who jumped on the Madonna hate bandwagon eve1 You liked me in the early pages of this thread because I was dragging Gaga. That was my goal. I'm not gonna apologize for hating RH as the only album in Madonna's discography and having my reasons for it, and my ideas about how it was received. Fuck that.

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7 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

First of all, again?

Second of all, I was being general and quick omg what would that LM have cared that I liked a few performances, songs and outfits post-2010? moo6 The point of me bringing up I didn't like recent Madonna was that... you know what, not even gonna repeat it.

no please say it... you already said that it was because you wanted to excuse yourself from draggings 'oh i don't like RH, joke is on you monster'. Right?

 

9 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

o? What does that mean? That was what I was talking about with H.O.N.E.Y. (who agreed, alongside me, that we disagreed but also respected each other's opinions) and you butted in and then I repeated some more of my thoughts, repeating all the way through that that was just the way I saw things. Who cares that I see it that way? interesting1 Do you really care that much about my personal take on the last two years of Madonna's career? Esp. when I say it's just my opinion? ayumi1 Who's the pressed one, really? The one who's been slandering me for a few opinions or the one who only started sharing those opinions because he was pushed?

No it wasn't, most of those things (if not all) you said to me

 

11 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

That is questioning my status as a fan though.. literally aretha1 It doesn't matter that you didn't mean it, you said, twice, that you thought it was hard to accept that I was a fan because, according to you (paraphrasing now) I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about when I mentioned things about her career ari1 That + you saying I lost all my credibility because I liked some recent things Madonna did (which you didn't like apparently) and saying you always (crucial to annihilating this point you made lol) knew I was a recent Madonna hater who delighted in acting superior because he didn't like post-2010's Madonna exactly shows your arrogant and wannabe superior behavior that you're ironically accusing me of like you're not the pro at meg1

like what the fuck lmfao1

you literally said that it was only tolerated because it was her and as a fan YOU KNOW THAT IS NOT TRUE AND NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE.  You are just fucking pressed that it received positive reviews, i mean just FUCKING DEAL WITH THEM instead of making up things and trying to sell them as fact. Which was exactly what started this whole mess. Not your dumb ass opinion that you are still trying to shove down my throat as the reason.

15 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

Talk about pulling things out of a context. I said that in relation to my original point: that I was tired of Madonna fans falling into the trap of LMs: bringing up her recent work to disqualify reasonable comments about Gaga as if all Madonna stans believe her recent work is brilliant oprah13 You didn't claim that RH was an amazing album, but you did make various claims about it shitting on ARTPOP as an album and being obviously superior brit13 Thereby giving even more ammo to LMs who can ignore quality criticism of Gaga by just toying around with easily played Madonna stans who believe RH is an album worth fighting about, like she doesn't have a ton of albums that are a lot better played to compare her to Gaga in terms of quality (which was literally the closing remark of my first RH-related post here).

So yeah, that is what I was talking about, asshole, and the fact that you don't even get it is proof of you not even caring about what I was originally saying in here and why I mentioned RH at all

Oh wait you just did it again lmfao1 you once again downgraded someone who actually likes album.  But then again you just did that too in her section too

Quote

it's sad that someone who actually remembers her provocative songs and performances is satisfied with.. that

 

Such an asshole.

 

19 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

lmfao that's the example of me bringing you down or something? fall1 Genius.

That is what the whole discussion was about. I wrote I didn't like RH because I thought it was basic in general ànd because it was subpar to her other work and you jumped on me to say that I had bs reasons for not liking it. That's how this all began, silly gaga12 That comment was also about you preferring a wild theory about Madonna being systematically boycotted by critics (well, you backtracked on that after being confronted with RH reviews) and the industry over a simple theory of people just not liking the music enough to buy it (which tied into our discussion about me not liking the album).

I mean you are literally lying about me here.

No it started because you were like 'it's bad because she had better' and 'it only received positive reviews because she is madonna'

and then when my simple question was posted you lost it and started writing SHIT that had nothing to do with why i quoted you, it's like you are trying to convince everyone how album is bad by posting SEVERAL times how it's basic, how we have low standards and expectations for liking it etc. Acting like your opinion matters more because of that 'oh i hate 2010s madonna so i won't be dragged here and my opinion is better because you are delusional for liking her recent efforts and i'm not' attitude you also had before this thread with that other member too.

 

Backtracked how? lmfao1 stop lying lmfao1

 

25 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

don't know what that's supposed to mean. I didn't bring anyone in here deliberately or whatever. I know you started quoting me for my reasons for not liking RH and what I think of the reception of the album (both of which you think is absolute bs), but I've clarified over and over again that it was just my opinion and that I'm not pretending my opinion is a fact (something, even after those many repetitions, you still deny) and that I didn't want to talk about RH until deliberately pressured by H.O.N.E.Y. and you mad6 Which automatically cancels out all of your "you want to bring Madonna and her fans down"; "you jumped on the hate bandwagon"; "you're obsessed with hating that album" comments jj5

Just face it, kid. I had no bad intentions, I started a conversation with another member (H.O.N.E.Y.) on good terms, I know my opinion is just an opinion (but I do have arguments for it, and if I'm asked about them, I will share them), and I'm not someone who jumped on the Madonna hate bandwagon eve1 You liked me in the early pages of this thread because I was dragging Gaga. That was my goal. I'm not gonna apologize for hating RH as the only album in Madonna's discography and having my reasons for it, and my ideas about how it was received. Fuck that.

Let me remind you

- just imagine RH having been made by an unknown pop artist and you instantly see how it's unforgivably basic and unimaginative... that's even more embarrassing

- that album is only tolerated because it's Madge

- I expected critics to attack her about the utter basicness of the songs

- I just think Madonna is capable of doing a lot better and a big portion of music critics and fans somehow let it slide for stupid reasons

- embraced for being even more basic

- people have already settled with subpar quality from her as an artist ... then you bitched about RH not being judged enough....

- There's no other explanation for that other than people tolerating basicness all of a sudden, 'cause the music only became more and more basi

- I think that critics and fans tolerated a new level of unimpressiveness musically, lyrically and visually

- than wondered how RH was appreciated more than some of her unrewarded previous work

- music critics were less hard on Madge

 

Hardly just an opinion, it's shocking to me that you are still not getting why this went this far?!?!?!

You think that i would've cared to quote you this much if you just expressed your negative opinion without acting like it's a fact or more important? You literally acted like you are above us who like it because 'we settled for subpar' and embraced 'basicness suddenly' according to you.
 

I mean i act like that when i troll albums/artists for whatever reasons, but the more this went on the more serious you got and you kept pushing it.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Li'l Sebastian said:

- Hollaback girl sold around 3,1m

- Chart rules are obviously not the same anymore, have you heard about STREAMING that totally changed charts for worse when it comes to artists who are DEAD ON RADIOS and weak on STREAMING services? And how hard it is now to debut HIGH? While that wasn't the case 10 years ago when every single song she released went top 10 in UK and almost everywhere in Europe.

- It didn't sell 1,2m in 2005, it sold that much in 5 years.

 

Not you acting like only SPECIAL songs are smashing these days lmfao1

And not you putting words in my mouth lmfao1 gaga is still fucking young and not seen as veteran and old artist who is almost 60, there are plenty of artists her age succeeding on charts and radios and there are none Madonna's age doing that.

 

Only 2 artists had hits in US this decade, JLO who was 42 when OTF was released, and Sia who is almost 41 and you're telling me that not one artists artist over 40 beside them released something interesting, or good enough to be successful? Since when it's all about quality? I mean you would just use any pity excuse...

 

 

 

But streaming now is what digital downloads were for 2005, so when you're dismissively rubbing off Hung Up's success with the excuse that it charted high due to big digital numbers you're actually rejecting your own narrative. Because your prerogative in this discussion is that Madonna's essentially an 80's artist that is considered to be a veteran and that fact represents a disadvantage when it comes to getting your music heard, right? Well, here's the thing : just like you can apply this logic in 2015, you could apply it in 2005 as well, because Madonna back then was already considered to be a veteran and the shift to the digital era theoretically (and by that I mean according to your logic) should have stacked against her, but it didn't, just like you said and those are your own words : Hung Up charted high due to good digital numbers. So why did the current shift in era worked against her unlike the last one? I would also like to add that Hung Up was one of the most viewed videos on YouTube before it got deleted (and that's something you told me in the past), so why did she dominate YouTube back then and not now?

1.2m years before the digital dominance completely took off is a fantastic number whether you want to acknowledge it or not, especially under those circumstances (being blacklisted on radio). We Belong Together which is the biggest song on the radio of all time, that spent 14 weeks #1 on the BB top 100 sold 2,3m to date. So please, at least concede such reliable information. It was hit. Period. If you're denying that it was a hit despite being able to sell more than half as much as the biggest song on the radio of all time, then you're just denying reality and I won't accept that as an argument.

Moreover, you continuously put the rest of the world out of the equation without any explanation, ageism is a global issue and not something exclusively American, so with that being said : why were Hung Up / Sorry all over the radio worldwide while Living For Love wasn't? Madonna was already being perceived in the same manner of which she is being perceived today : an overtly sexual old woman that doesn't act her age = ageism. This forces me to conclude that what you're telling me isn't convincing enough and therefore I'm not obligated to believe you. Consequently, I believe I deserve an apology for falsely being accused of denying ageism.

In order to get a hit, you need a song that inspires a reaction from the human condition, that's what I meant by "unique appeal". And Living For Love simply didn't achieve that, in my opinion. Note : inspiring a reaction doesn't mean that you necessarily created a quality song, but it means that you created something relevant to the social and sonical dynamics of which you're currently experiencing in the form of musical commercialism. So if you want to provide a counter argument to what I just said you need to prove that Living For Love is less accessible than Hung Up.

Yes, Sia & JLO are in their 40's and they are receiving their fair share of commercial success, thank you for bringing them up, they are great examples that work against your points lol. What I'd love to ask you is how many artists of the age range of which we're discussing are deliberately creating music with the intention of catering to the masses / radio / charts ?

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@Onika

I'll send you nudes if you don't lock this. rav2

Plus, this is BG lol who cares if we went off topic (which is not really the case, it just escalated to different direction but it's still tied to the general idea of the thread).

 

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@Li'l Sebastian

The same fucking post again? ny6ny6ny6

I've literally addressed every damn "argument" you're bringing a thousand times already fall5

At this point I can repeat that what I was writing was just my personal opinion and I'm totally fine with you having a different one, and that I don't think I'm superior to other Madonna fans, and that I know my opinion is not a fact, but it's just not gonna help, is it? eve1 You're gonna be a stubborn ass bitch and still stay glued to the supposed tone of those early posts you obviously misunderstood. And you're still not gonna address why you were allowed to act superior to me for having more knowledge about Madonna, for liking better Madonna products, and for not jumping on the RH bandwagon kr1 Maybe start with that, 'cause that was not "trolling". I'm not gonna fucking put "this is just my opinion!!!" before every single statement, nobody does that, and I even did write it in various posts here so fuck. you. for still pretending you're talking to some arrogant cunt, I know I'm not gaga12 Can't believe this is the outcome of my first post here kesha2

Edit: Cackle, look at the parallel post made by me on fucking Wednesday oprah11 This convo really moved along.

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I mean Ayo is better than anything Madonna ever did since Hung Up so don't feel sorry for us. 

I mean if we're picking only one song as receipts than Ghosttown alone is better than gaga's existence because i say so   see, it works both ways  

I hate it when people be making these threads like they know what we want     and act like we are forcing ourselves to like the music. Why can't we just enjoy it without it being considered


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