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Villanelle

Spice Girls

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Just now, dhrbb03 said:

I never asked you to agree with me. Eat a Snickers before you turn into Mel B. 

Sis you quoted me with an opinion presented as facts, I just reminded u that it's your opinion that not everyone agrees with. You could eat a whole box of snickers. feb1

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@Vertigo-go I am, it's shameful at this point. It's like being educated beyond usefulness. I know more than is necessary to function as a SG fan. Obsession may put it mildly.

1 hour ago, H.O.N.E.Y said:

Geri relied a lot on the other girls to carry her vocally and dance-wise, so the least she could do was help write the tracks. rav2 Althought the lyrics on her 1st solo album were clever and witty, on the 2nd album were nothing special. And if she had such an ear for good music she sure lost it when recording her latest flop single. aretha1

 

Also another thing that people often miss is that Geri not only left the group abruptly causing the group to perform without her in mid-tour and making the fans (aka me) cry, in 2001 she visited the set of Victoria's video on Not Such an Innocent Girl and copied the idea of the flying motorcycles and had it done and released like a month before Victoria's video which made people accuse Victoria of copying Geri. Mel B never went that low, Geri is just a bottomfeeding attention whore that would stab her friends instantly for fame. nicki4

 

And this is not confirmed but I personally think this Victoria song is about Geri, it gives me the same vibes that Tell Me Why gives and that was confirmed to be about Geri. aretha1

 

Again, I apologize for my horrendous obsession, I've needed medication to cure my Spice illness, but there is none.

I had to pull out my binder of useless information to see what I could find on both Whatchu Talkin Bout and the music videos as I remember both rumors being all over the Spice forums back in the day. There were so many discussions on SpiceZone forums back in the day about Whatchu Talkin Bout and whether she was discussing Geri, and I agree that it does seem quite on point. It was recorded in December 2000 and I don't think Geri had popped into the studio to see Victoria until early 2001, their famous first meeting after she left where she bounded into the room with Victoria, David, Brooklyn, and the producers/writers in a state of shock, which Victoria wrote in her book was awkward. The song wasn't discussed on the official interview CD and the interviews that I have with Soulshock & Karlin don't talk about the inspiration for the lyrical content. However, there was an interview where she was asked if it was about Geri and her response was more or less a joke where she said something along the lines of "Finally, someone figured it out" but given the context and the fact that she said it was a song that could be about anyone makes me wonder if she was just being sarcastic, which doesn't translate well through text anyway. There were also rumors that it was about Mel C's lack of involvement in recording Forever and Victoria's disappointment in her bailing on them, too, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it being about any specific one. (Here's a nifty little Billboard page with a photo of Victoria, Soulshock & Karlin in the studio where they note she had recently been in the studio recording Whatchu Talkin Bout)

Now the whole flying motorcycle debacle is a massive coincidence at best, but if (and it's a huge if) Geri did get the idea from Victoria, she definitely did not see it in person since she filmed SIYWGF before NSAIG was filmed as it was originally scheduled for a July 2nd release, but pushed back to let It's Raining Men pull in a few more sales. There's definitely a lot of confusion around it all, but I don't think it's anything more than speculation.

The original rumor was Victoria saw Geri's video when it was released (a week before hers premiered) and wasn't too happy about the coincidence as she thought people would think she was copying Geri and given the cost and time spent filming NSAIG couldn't do a re-shoot (which did not come directly from Victoria). Then the rumor was that Geri had heard the idea for Victoria's video through mutual friends and that inspired her (again, a quote from a 'source'). Then it was rumored she had visited the set and stole the idea (this was an entirely different source again). Victoria never said anything about it directly, but the only facts we have are the filming of each video.

Victoria didn't film her portion of NSAIG until the first week of June 2001 over the course of two days (one day for each persona) and the video premiered in early July (the 1st if SpiceNews is anything to go by). The only post-production completed after she filmed that involved special effects were the scenes involving two Victorias. The digital backgrounds for the bike battle scene were completed prior to the filming of the video to ensure a quick release as the video needed to be out for promotion for a minimum six-week campaign which would have begun the last week of June. Victoria did claim that the concept was developed in late May leading up to the filming and despite being the most expensive solo Spice video, it was massively rushed. NSAIG was originally going to be released in early August, with the album to follow later that month, but she wanted to avoid a chart battle with Geri if Scream was still in the singles charts.

The Scream video was filmed over two days as well, but about a week and a half prior to the NSAIG shoot. It was directed by the same guys that did the It's Raining Men video in March 2001, and during and shortly after that shoot they had already begun to develop the concept for the Scream video. Whether or not they came up with the flying Geri idea during this time, who knows?

What Geri fans think happened - Nothing. What Victoria fans think happened - Geri copied her. What likely happened? It was 2001, the media were not particularly kind to any of them and Geri and Victoria definitely received the bulk of the negative attention at the time. The story changed a lot over the course of a month and each time it was in the press, it became bigger and more conflicting. I have no clue what really happened obviously, but Geri most certainly did not step on Victoria's set before filming her own video. That's the only thing out of this whole mess that is somewhat clear.

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Just now, dhrbb03 said:

@Vertigo-go I am, it's shameful at this point. It's like being educated beyond usefulness. I know more than is necessary to function as a SG fan. Obsession may put it mildly.

Again, I apologize for my horrendous obsession, I've needed medication to cure my Spice illness, but there is none.

I had to pull out my binder of useless information to see what I could find on both Whatchu Talkin Bout and the music videos as I remember both rumors being all over the Spice forums back in the day. There were so many discussions on SpiceZone forums back in the day about Whatchu Talkin Bout and whether she was discussing Geri, and I agree that it does seem quite on point. It was recorded in December 2000 and I don't think Geri had popped into the studio to see Victoria until early 2001, their famous first meeting after she left where she bounded into the room with Victoria, David, Brooklyn, and the producers/writers in a state of shock, which Victoria wrote in her book was awkward. The song wasn't discussed on the official interview CD and the interviews that I have with Soulshock & Karlin don't talk about the inspiration for the lyrical content. However, there was an interview where she was asked if it was about Geri and her response was more or less a joke where she said something along the lines of "Finally, someone figured it out" but given the context and the fact that she said it was a song that could be about anyone makes me wonder if she was just being sarcastic, which doesn't translate well through text anyway. There were also rumors that it was about Mel C's lack of involvement in recording Forever and Victoria's disappointment in her bailing on them, too, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it being about any specific one. (Here's a nifty little Billboard page with a photo of Victoria, Soulshock & Karlin in the studio where they note she had recently been in the studio recording Whatchu Talkin Bout)

Now the whole flying motorcycle debacle is a massive coincidence at best, but if (and it's a huge if) Geri did get the idea from Victoria, she definitely did not see it in person since she filmed SIYWGF before NSAIG was filmed as it was originally scheduled for a July 2nd release, but pushed back to let It's Raining Men pull in a few more sales. There's definitely a lot of confusion around it all, but I don't think it's anything more than speculation.

The original rumor was Victoria saw Geri's video when it was released (a week before hers premiered) and wasn't too happy about the coincidence as she thought people would think she was copying Geri and given the cost and time spent filming NSAIG couldn't do a re-shoot (which did not come directly from Victoria). Then the rumor was that Geri had heard the idea for Victoria's video through mutual friends and that inspired her (again, a quote from a 'source'). Then it was rumored she had visited the set and stole the idea (this was an entirely different source again). Victoria never said anything about it directly, but the only facts we have are the filming of each video.

Victoria didn't film her portion of NSAIG until the first week of June 2001 over the course of two days (one day for each persona) and the video premiered in early July (the 1st if SpiceNews is anything to go by). The only post-production completed after she filmed that involved special effects were the scenes involving two Victorias. The digital backgrounds for the bike battle scene were completed prior to the filming of the video to ensure a quick release as the video needed to be out for promotion for a minimum six-week campaign which would have begun the last week of June. Victoria did claim that the concept was developed in late May leading up to the filming and despite being the most expensive solo Spice video, it was massively rushed. NSAIG was originally going to be released in early August, with the album to follow later that month, but she wanted to avoid a chart battle with Geri if Scream was still in the singles charts.

The Scream video was filmed over two days as well, but about a week and a half prior to the NSAIG shoot. It was directed by the same guys that did the It's Raining Men video in March 2001, and during and shortly after that shoot they had already begun to develop the concept for the Scream video. Whether or not they came up with the flying Geri idea during this time, who knows?

What Geri fans think happened - Nothing. What Victoria fans think happened - Geri copied her. What likely happened? It was 2001, the media were not particularly kind to any of them and Geri and Victoria definitely received the bulk of the negative attention at the time. The story changed a lot over the course of a month and each time it was in the press, it became bigger and more conflicting. I have no clue what really happened obviously, but Geri most certainly did not step on Victoria's set before filming her own video. That's the only thing out of this whole mess that is somewhat clear.

Wow u didn't lie when u said u were obsessed with them. nicki4

 

I guess Geri didn't see the video but she knew of the concept. It makes sense that Vicky told her cos they were getting close again at that point then they drifted apart again until 2006-2007. But just keep in mind that Geri's video minus the flying motorcycle was very simplistic and didn't really need a lot of editing, now compare that to Victoria's video.. obviously u can tell which concept came first, which took more time to edit, and which was a more thought out concept. I appreciate your paragraphs though it's really fun to see what other fans recall of the Spice eras. aretha1

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6 hours ago, H.O.N.E.Y said:

Wow u didn't lie when u said u were obsessed with them. nicki4

 

I guess Geri didn't see the video but she knew of the concept. It makes sense that Vicky told her cos they were getting close again at that point then they drifted apart again until 2006-2007. But just keep in mind that Geri's video minus the flying motorcycle was very simplistic and didn't really need a lot of editing, now compare that to Victoria's video.. obviously u can tell which concept came first, which took more time to edit, and which was a more thought out concept. I appreciate your paragraphs though it's really fun to see what other fans recall of the Spice eras. aretha1

 

Ok, brace yourself, I flipped through my binders and found a few more details regarding both videos, the original single schedule for the SIYWGF album, and the recording of NSAIG. This is all I found, so I PROMISE I'm done turning this topic into Wikipedia!

Regarding Geri's simplistic video, yeah, it would seem it would have been much easier to complete and release, but a large portion of the first day's shoot was discarded and the video became a much less interesting affair. There was to be less on the performance front and more on the action shots, but they eventually decided on a half and half scenario. To me, it isn't obvious which idea came first because of a few things. It's Raining Men was a last-minute addition to the album when she was asked to contribute a track to the Bridget Jones soundtrack. It only came to be around December 2000-January 2001. Prior to that, SIYWGF, Feels Like Sex, and Shake Your Bootie Cutie were all being floated as the first single with most of the focus on SYBC and SIYWGF and initial release dates around February, but IRM got pushed back to align more with the movie and soundtrack releases. She had originally begun developing ideas with Jake & Jim (who eventually did both of the IRM and SIYWGF videos) in January with SYBC getting a Bag It Up style treatment, and SIYWGF was to be a Lara Croft/Tomb Raider style video that didn't include the live performance scenario. It's at this point that IRM was going to only be featured on the soundtrack, but not her album and was to be a double a-side with either SYBC or SIYWGF to promote the soundtrack and her album simultaneously.

I recalled a Tomb Raider connection and that the bike was intended to be an above ground vehicle in the style of the one Lara used underwater in The Cradle of Life. I also recalled her filming the Scream video during early promo for IRM (which was from March to April), but I wasn't completely sure and I didn't want to throw that out there without finding it in my notes first (what I posted above regarding the filming of the videos was largely from press that came out after Victoria's video was released). I found one of the interviews Geri gave while promoting It's Raining Men in Canada in May 2001 where she confirmed she had already filmed the video, she doesn't discuss the referencing of Lara Croft in too much detail unfortunately or the video for that matter. Going by the article, she arrived in Canada on May 2nd. The date that I have on my printed copy says it was published on May 4th and I did a quick Google search to see if I could find it (you can read it here, but neither the date in the link or on the page align, I'm assuming the June 8th link was when it first appeared on this website as opposed to printed content, and the 2004 link was obviously just an update). I trust my printed copies far more than dates posted online now since I dated everything for their original publication date and the date that I obtained it as they were released (clearly I was a journalist in the making). If she arrived on May 2nd and had filmed the video prior, she would have had to film the video at the very least during the last week of April and would have had to develop a concept at least a couple weeks in advance which would have been a minimum of a month before Victoria obtained NSAIG (they hadn't selected Jake Nava as director until after they obtained the rights to NSAIG in May anyway, and Victoria had little input on the concept for the video which makes what I mention below that much more bizarre).

Victoria didn't record NSAIG until April of 2001 along with final recordings for No Trix, No Games, That Kind of Girl, Always Be My Baby, and Feels So Good which had all been 'completed' in late 2000. Originally a song with Rhett Lawrence called Get With You and another song with Soulshock & Karlin called I Want You were on the album before they were replaced by these. Even after she had recorded NSAIG, they didn't get clearance for the track until a couple weeks later after Willa Ford said she had no more interest in releasing it (she recorded it, performed and promoted it for over a year by this point prior to getting signed to a label). Also, I Wish and Girlfriend were both originally floated as first single contenders, but they eventually backed away from them as a contractual obligation with Andrew Frampton required Virgin to release two of his songs, one as the first single and second song as a successive single, after he gave his permission for her to release NSAIG on her album, and the only one they thought was strong enough was NSAIG. The release was a last minute rush as they had very little time between obtaining the track and filming the video. There were even some rumors at the time that the video concept for NSAIG was developed by Jake for an entirely different artist and he merely used it for Victoria since they had little time. Now, I don't know about you, but I find it hard to believe that Victoria/Virgin could have developed a concept for a song they didn't even know existed prior to the latter half of April, let alone a song they wanted on the album, but weren't intending on releasing as a single until later.

I still don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that it was anything other than a big coincidence, but I will say the majority of the rumors were fueled by disdain for Geri over her leaving the band. I was a bigger Victoria fan regarding solo music at the time. I was really annoyed at the possibility that Geri stole the idea, but now and even then, I never really saw how it could have been a possibility. There are far too many conflicting events for it to have been as clear cut and dry that Geri stole the bike concept. The chronology of events leading up to July 2001 don't support the claim that Victoria was ripped off in any way. If anything, it makes Victoria seem like the one who copied Geri, although I don't think there's evidence that she knew what Geri was planning for her single either. It wasn't until recordings in 2001 where Victoria first randomly ran into Geri and I doubt after a couple of months they had redeveloped their friendship enough to go into great detail about their lives. It definitely makes for some interesting reads, though. Maybe we'll be lucky and the truth will come out one day.

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Just now, dhrbb03 said:

Ok, brace yourself, I flipped through my binders and found a few more details regarding both videos, the original single schedule for the SIYWGF album, and the recording of NSAIG. This is all I found, so I PROMISE I'm done turning this topic into Wikipedia!

Regarding Geri's simplistic video, yeah, it would seem it would have been much easier to complete and release, but a large portion of the first day's shoot was discarded and the video became a much less interesting affair. There was to be less on the performance front and more on the action shots, but they eventually decided on a half and half scenario. To me, it isn't obvious which idea came first because of a few things. It's Raining Men was a last-minute addition to the album when she was asked to contribute a track to the Bridget Jones soundtrack. It only came to be around December 2000-January 2001. Prior to that, SIYWGF, Feels Like Sex, and Shake Your Bootie Cutie were all being floated as the first single with most of the focus on SYBC and SIYWGF and initial release dates around February, but IRM got pushed back to align more with the movie and soundtrack releases. She had originally begun developing ideas with Jake & Jim (who eventually did both of the IRM and SIYWGF videos) in January with SYBC getting a Bag It Up style treatment, and SIYWGF was to be a Lara Croft/Tomb Raider style video that didn't include the live performance scenario. It's at this point that IRM was going to only be featured on the soundtrack, but not her album and was to be a double a-side with either SYBC or SIYWGF to promote the soundtrack and her album simultaneously.

I recalled a Tomb Raider connection and that the bike was intended to be an above ground vehicle in the style of the one Lara used underwater in The Cradle of Life. I also recalled her filming the Scream video during early promo for IRM (which was from March to April), but I wasn't completely sure and I didn't want to throw that out there without finding it in my notes first (what I posted above regarding the filming of the videos was largely from press that came out after Victoria's video was released). I found one of the interviews Geri gave while promoting It's Raining Men in Canada in May 2001 where she confirmed she had already filmed the video, she doesn't discuss the referencing of Lara Croft in too much detail unfortunately or the video for that matter. Going by the article, she arrived in Canada on May 2nd. The date that I have on my printed copy says it was published on May 4th and I did a quick Google search to see if I could find it (you can read it here, but neither the date in the link or on the page align, I'm assuming the June 8th link was when it first appeared on this website as opposed to printed content, and the 2004 link was obviously just an update). I trust my printed copies far more than dates posted online now since I dated everything for their original publication date and the date that I obtained it as they were released (clearly I was a journalist in the making). If she arrived on May 2nd and had filmed the video prior, she would have had to film the video at the very least during the last week of April and would have had to develop a concept at least a couple weeks in advance which would have been a minimum of a month before Victoria obtained NSAIG (they hadn't selected Jake Nava as director until after they obtained the rights to NSAIG in May anyway, and Victoria had little input on the concept for the video which makes what I mention below that much more bizarre).

Victoria didn't record NSAIG until April of 2001 along with final recordings for No Trix, No Games, That Kind of Girl, Always Be My Baby, and Feels So Good which had all been 'completed' in late 2000. Originally a song with Rhett Lawrence called Get With You and another song with Soulshock & Karlin called I Want You were on the album before they were replaced by these. Even after she had recorded NSAIG, they didn't get clearance for the track until a couple weeks later after Willa Ford said she had no more interest in releasing it (she recorded it, performed and promoted it for over a year by this point prior to getting signed to a label). Also, I Wish and Girlfriend were both originally floated as first single contenders, but they eventually backed away from them as a contractual obligation with Andrew Frampton required Virgin to release two of his songs, one as the first single and second song as a successive single, after he gave his permission for her to release NSAIG on her album, and the only one they thought was strong enough was NSAIG. The release was a last minute rush as they had very little time between obtaining the track and filming the video. There were even some rumors at the time that the video concept for NSAIG was developed by Jake for an entirely different artist and he merely used it for Victoria since they had little time. Now, I don't know about you, but I find it hard to believe that Victoria/Virgin could have developed a concept for a song they didn't even know existed prior to the latter half of April, let alone a song they wanted on the album, but weren't intending on releasing as a single until later.

I still don't think there's enough evidence to suggest that it was anything other than a big coincidence, but I will say the majority of the rumors were fueled by disdain for Geri over her leaving the band. I was a bigger Victoria fan regarding solo music at the time. I was really annoyed at the possibility that Geri stole the idea, but now and even then, I never really saw how it could have been a possibility. There are far too many conflicting events for it to have been as clear cut and dry that Geri stole the bike concept. The chronology of events leading up to July 2001 don't support the claim that Victoria was ripped off in any way. If anything, it makes Victoria seem like the one who copied Geri, although I don't think there's evidence that she knew what Geri was planning for her single either. It wasn't until recordings in 2001 where Victoria first randomly ran into Geri and I doubt after a couple of months they had redeveloped their friendship enough to go into great detail about their lives. It definitely makes for some interesting reads, though. Maybe we'll be lucky and the truth will come out one day.

clap3

 

I could read your posts for days tbh. You should write a book about all the events in your binder. clap1

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I don't mind Hot and I actually really like the singles (aside from Lullaby), but what in the fresh hell is LA State of Mind? Did she lose her mind in LA?? That album is like the antithesis of her personality, too. Mellow and boring.

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Just now, Ginger Spice said:

I don't mind Hot and I actually really like the singles (aside from Lullaby), but what in the fresh hell is LA State of Mind? Did she lose her mind in LA?? That album is like the antithesis of her personality, too. Mellow and boring.

I agree I still listen to Hot actually. Emma's latter music (her 3rd album) is probably the most unlistenable Spice Solo Album ever. I never listen to LA State of Mind but I don't think it's complete garbage it just feels that she recorded it on Garageband or something. rip4  But yeah it doesn't feel very Mel B.

 

 

This song, which I hated at first, is o much more Mel B. I wonder why the hell why she wasn't able to make an American-based solo comeback in 2006-2007? Especially after her Dancing with the Stars gig blew up. bummer1

 

 

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4 hours ago, H.O.N.E.Y said:

This song, which I hated at first, is o much more Mel B. I wonder why the hell why she wasn't able to make an American-based solo comeback in 2006-2007? Especially after her Dancing with the Stars gig blew up. bummer1

 

 

She nearly had completed an album around that time, but due to some legal wranglings of her producer Scott Storch, she couldn't release any of it. I've always wondered what the rest of that era sounded like.

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Just now, dhrbb03 said:

She nearly had completed an album around that time, but due to some legal wranglings of her producer Scott Storch, she couldn't release any of it. I've always wondered what the rest of that era sounded like.

Wait wtf? Scott produced Whose Is It? It doesn't sound very Scott Storch-ish idk. If it was his production he really gave her the worst of his work. awk1

 

Damn that Scott he always has issues with singers. He's the one that made Xtina delay Back 2 Basics and she made a diss song for him. lj1

 

 

 

 

I would've loved if Mel made a 2003-2004 Scott Storch RnB album. cry6

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39 minutes ago, Vertigo-go said:

What is this crazy LA State of Mind hatred fall5

I never heard it, is it same album that spawned that absurd video where she's a business bitch that strips in the street? fall4

 

This was the only single from LA State of Mind:

 

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6 hours ago, Woolridge said:

I wouldn't call myself a Spice Girls stan but around one year ago I was thrift shopping at this very little second hand store in a village not so far away from my home and I found two Spice Girls CD's there. I bought them both for four euro, one is titled Spiceworld and the other one is just titled Spice Girls. I haven't listed to them after I bought them but I will someday. They also sold old Madonna CD's but I couldn't afford them unfortunately, I think one of them was Like A Prayer. Anyway, which Spice Girls songs would you all recommend me to listen to?

Wannabe

Say You'll Be There

Love Thing

If U Can't Dance

Spice Up Your Life

Stop

Too Much

Saturday Night Divas

Move Over

Walk of Life

Outer Space Girls

Step to Me

Holler

If You Wanna Have Some Fun

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6 hours ago, Woolridge said:

I wouldn't call myself a Spice Girls stan but around one year ago I was thrift shopping at this very little second hand store in a village not so far away from my home and I found two Spice Girls CD's there. I bought them both for four euro, one is titled Spiceworld and the other one is just titled Spice Girls. I haven't listed to them after I bought them but I will someday. They also sold old Madonna CD's but I couldn't afford them unfortunately, I think one of them was Like A Prayer. Anyway, which Spice Girls songs would you all recommend me to listen to?

Wannabe, Say You'll Be There, Who Do You Think You Are, 2 Become 1, Love Thing, Something Kinda Funny, Naked, Spice Up Your Life, Stop, Too Much, Saturday Night Divas, Do It, Denying

 

Oh just listen to the full albums

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