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A lamb's meltdown on the NYE performance

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10 minutes ago, light741 said:

The thing is. People think a high note is impressive. Mariah has hit high notes recently with and without straining. So if your point is. That her signature notes are all they want. She can still go up there. And they won't judge which notes were well executed and which weren't. Because the GP doesn't know about technical aspects of singing. They hear a high note and go like "WOW". Which is why almost all you hear about the GP the recent times she did whistles live is. "Oh good she can still hit them".

So what you're (finally) admitting is that the reason why she has a chance now is because people have an awfully low standard, I accept that lol. I don't agree with it (because, please, we can easily infer from her reputation nowadays that people are not really impressed by her voice anymore), but I accept it because that's a valid thing to say. lj1

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2 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

For her superfans, yes. Like I said before: she definitely still has room in the industry because so many fans still want to pay money to see her, people who are in love with her entire person and act rav1 But becoming a fan service act, imo, is not a proper send-off for a vocal icon.

Well, I don't think she has nothing to offer, but it's just not enough (imo) to go on tour and ask money for it rih12 If you wouldn't possibly have gotten a career as a singer with your current vocals, despite your past talents, I just think it's better to pack up and leave, but that's more a statement about integrity and morality than about whether she can still sing a song or not sia1 She obviously can, but to the question: "Is it still good enough to carry on a career as a globally known vocal icon?" I say no. But she's free to do what she wants, I just think with all her recent fuck-ups she's actually ruining her legacy. Let's face it, the generation growing up now will largely know her as the singer who fucked up two huge tv performances and can't sing anymore wat2 That could've been avoided if she just stopped in time.

I don't think she ruins her legacy. Because we have seen big stars with big legacies go through dark times and they were fine when everything was said and done. The media makes them, breaks them and makes them again. It happened to all the big names and names below Mariah's tier too. Her singing style is very influential until these days. Her achievements and impact are set in stones. She will always be a vocal legend. And i see a pattern with most big stars. So many of them have gone through this kind of hell situation. Only to be "redeemed" when they died. The morbidity of some people. is very scary. But it's so commn in this industry. Like stars past their prime that no longer are at the top and are facing dark hours, usually have to die to be given credit for the good things they did. Scary.

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6 minutes ago, light741 said:

I don't think she ruins her legacy. Because we have seen big stars with big legacies go through dark times and they were fine when everything was said and done. The media makes them, breaks them and makes them again.

Well, yeah, but in the vocal department it's very hard to have a comeback oprah2 It's sort of a permanent thing rav3

6 minutes ago, light741 said:

Her singing style is very influential until these days. Her achievements and impact are set in stones. She will always be a vocal legend. And i see a pattern with most big stars. So many of them have gone through this kind of hell situation. Only to be "redeemed" when they died. The morbidity of some people. is very scary. But it's so commn in this industry. Like stars past their prime that no longer are at the top and are facing dark hours, usually have to die to be given credit for the good things they did. Scary.

Well, agreed. But the other alternative is just that artists know when to stop and keep their legacy intact rav1 A lot of the big legends go through a hell phase because they put out shit records or are a shadow of their past glory in terms of performance. So I don't think it's ok to just blame one side of the equation: the public. You can also play it differently: sometimes artists (or era's at least) deserve the bad reputation they have, and the "death redeeming" is very often a forgetting of that because people feel too bad to say anything negative at all lj1 Like with Michael Jackson for instance. He released a TON of horrible albums everyone hated, and his last significant album was in the fucking 80s. But when he died everyone decided to forget that and just focus on the two good albums in his discography rih12 That's not fair either.

I don't think Mariah is facing "dark times" necessarily, I just think that her vocals are very damaged and that's a very objective thing to say that has nothing to do with personal insults wat2 When an athlete's or Cirque du Soleil performer's body is massively deterioriating, they're advised to retire, and no one is calling that a personal attack, it's just what's logical. You can't be in a contest or on a stage when you can't deliver the goods anymore. Why not apply that same logic to performers is my question gaga12

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Just now, Jjang said:

So what you're (finally) admitting is that the reason why she has a chance now is because people have an awfully low standard, I accept that lol. I don't agree with it (because, please, we can easily infer from her reputation nowadays that people are not really impressed by her voice anymore), but I accept it because that's a valid thing to say. lj1

One think you need to understand. When the other girls were mentioned. They were examples of people that aren't above Mariah's standard now. And i made the question. Can Mariah still sing with vibrato, resonance and stay in the center of the pitch?. Yes. Is her singing now the same level she had before?. No. But to say she is terrible now or can't deliver good vocals is just not true. Your opinion is that if she can't be at the standard of her past yeears, then it's not good. But that is not accurate. Like i said to earth ripper. And i quote. "We don't agree, because i don't think Mariah's super vocals are all she has to give. Her music, her lyrics mean a lot to many people. She has that to offer too. And her current voice has its own beauty and strength. She can give the vocals like a profesinal singer with her current voice. Which is not the level of her past vocals, but still. And i don't mind Mariah doing different vocal arrangemens to adapt her singing to her current voice. That would make her improve more her current singing. You seem to think if she doesn't hit all the big notes of her past years, she has nothing good to offer singing wise. And that's just not true. But you can have your opinion. I just don't see singing as a whole with your vision. We can leave at that if you want". That's my point. Mariah has a lower capability now, but it doesn't mean she is useless as a vocalist now.

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4 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

Well, yeah, but in the vocal department it's very hard to have a comeback oprah2 It's sort of a permanent thing rav3

Well, agreed. But the other alternative is just that artists know when to stop and keep their legacy intact rav1 A lot of the big legends go through a hell phase because they put out shit records or are a shadow of their past glory in terms of performance. So I don't think it's ok to just blame one side of the equation: the public. You can also play it differently: sometimes artists (or era's at least) deserve the bad reputation they have, and the "death redeeming" is very often a forgetting of that because people feel too bad to say anything negative at all lj1 Like with Michael Jackson for instance. He released a TON of horrible albums everyone hated, and his last significant album was in the fucking 80s. But when he died everyone decided to forget that and just focus on the two good albums in his discography rih12 That's not fair either.

I don't think Mariah is facing "dark times" necessarily, I just think that her vocals are very damaged and that's a very objective thing to say that has nothing to do with personal insults wat2 When an athlete's or Cirque du Soleil performer's body is massively deterioriating, they're advised to retire, and no one is calling that a personal attack, it's just what's logical. You can't be in a contest or on a stage when you can't deliver the goods anymore. Why not apply that same logic to performers is my question gaga12

There is a patern it seems. A lot of the big stars don't seem to think about retirement when they can't do certain things as good as before. And who am i to judge their lives and careers?. At the end i'm glad i have the music and the things they have done to inspire me and help me through my own difficult times. So they will always have my gratitude.

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Just now, light741 said:

There is a patern it seems. A lot of the big stars don't seem to think about retirement when they can't do certain things as good as before. And who am i to judge their lives and careers?. At the end i'm glad i have the music and the things they have done to inspire me and help me through my own difficult times. So they will always have my gratitude.

Well, sure, but let's face it, this is a public discussion forum that is all about judging lives and careers for better or worse rih12 I obviously wouldn't make a big case for retirement if I'd actually meet Mariah, she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but I just have my simple, irrelevant opinion about it and that's literally it. I think it's a little weak to, after pages and pages of argumented discussion, now play the "well who are you to judge" card fall1 I mean, I'm no one to judge but it's just a discussion about opinions. You wouldn't apply that logic anywhere else. Who are we to judge about Trump? Who are we to judge about Hitler? And yes, I know that's a ridiculous comparison, but it's just to show that the underlying logic is dumb dead7 

The Emancipation of Mimi was one of the first albums I bought with my own money and Mine Again will remain one of my go-to songs, but if I were her, I'd retire, simple as that, I am perfectly fine saying that while knowing I'm no one to judge, just like I'm no one to judge about any theoretical topic ever gaga6

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14 hours ago, light741 said:

One think you need to understand. When the other girls were mentioned. They were examples of people that aren't above Mariah's standard now. And i made the question. Can Mariah still sing with vibrato, resonance and stay in the center of the pitch?. Yes. Is her singing now the same level she had before?. No. But to say she is terrible now or can't deliver good vocals is just not true. Your opinion is that if she can't be at the standard of her past yeears, then it's not good. But that is not accurate. Like i said to earth ripper. And i quote. "We don't agree, because i don't think Mariah's super vocals are all she has to give. Her music, her lyrics mean a lot to many people. She has that to offer too. And her current voice has its own beauty and strength. She can give the vocals like a profesinal singer with her current voice. Which is not the level of her past vocals, but still. And i don't mind Mariah doing different vocal arrangemens to adapt her singing to her current voice. That would make her improve more her current singing. You seem to think if she doesn't hit all the big notes of her past years, she has nothing good to offer singing wise. And that's just not true. But you can have your opinion. I just don't see singing as a whole with your vision. We can leave at that if you want". That's my point. Mariah has a lower capability now, but it doesn't mean she is useless as a vocalist now.

But she's not adapting a new effectual vocal approach, no new arrangements, nothing. She's just butchering the original studio versions of her songs live, maybe her voice did in fact age and changed in form, but then I'd expect the way she performs to take a new form as well, but she's not doing that and that directly leads to poor execution and mediocrity. I wouldn't be accusing Mariah of being a useless performer if she put some effort into her stage craft and offered new and intelligent arrangements that capitalize on what makes her currently good as a singer, but she's not doing that. She doesn't display showmanship, no display of real stagecraft etc and her voice...well, we've already talked about that. All of that leads me to the conclusion that she doesn't produce any merit as a performer these days and therefore useless. So she's not earning any genuine respect from me, I think if you're classified as a vocal icon then at the very least you need to be consistently providing solid vocal performances, which she simply doesn't do anymore, and no I'm not talking about high notes only, I'm talking about the general impression of the performance.

So yeah, unless she turns things around, stops being lazy as fuck on stage, does some dramatic changes to her stage craft and vocal approach then I'll change my opinion, but as for now, she's useless as a performer and she's perfectly content with not changing that. Useless. moo5

Her lyrics and her music means a lot to her fans, but that has nothing to do with her as a performer. moo5

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11 hours ago, Jjang said:

But she's not adapting a new effectual vocal approach, no new arrangements, nothing. She's just butchering the original studio versions of her songs live, maybe her voice did in fact age and changed in form, but then I'd expect the way she performs to take a new form as well, but she's not doing that and that directly leads to poor execution and mediocrity. I wouldn't be accusing Mariah of being a useless performer if she put some effort into her stage craft and offered new and intelligent arrangements that capitalize on what makes her currently good as a singer, but she's not doing that. She doesn't display showmanship, no display of real stagecraft etc and her voice...well, we've already talked about that. All of that leads me to the conclusion that she doesn't produce any merit as a performer these days and therefore useless. So she's not earning any genuine respect from me, I think if you're classified as a vocal icon then at the very least you need to be consistently providing solid vocal performances, which she simply doesn't do anymore, and no I'm not talking about high notes only, I'm talking about the general impression of the performance.

So yeah, unless she turns things around, stops being lazy as fuck on stage, does some dramatic changes to her stage craft and vocal approach then I'll change my opinion, but as for now, she's useless as a performer and she's perfectly content with not changing that. Useless. moo5

Her lyrics and her music means a lot to her fans, but that has nothing to do with her as a performer. moo5

What i say is based on the times she does show a different approach to some of her songs and when she does improvisations, in those moments she doesn't go butchering and does show the strength of her current voice. She is not the vocalist she was. But she still is capable of good vocals. That's all i was trying to say. I do believe she must be more profesional about certain things and try her best all the time. You are right about that.

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3 hours ago, light741 said:

What i say is based on the times she does show a different approach to some of her songs and when she does improvisations, in those moments she doesn't go butchering and does show the strength of her current voice. She is not the vocalist she was. But she still is capable of good vocals. That's all i was trying to say. I do believe she must be more profesional about certain things and try her best all the time. You are right about that.

Well, that's the thing. Given her status as a vocal icon and the way she chooses to present herself as a performer it's not enough to just showcase solid vocals only on certain moments, but rather consistently... that's my point. If she worked on bettering her stage craft and vocal approach I wouldn't be writing her off as a performer, but until then I don't see any merit or value to her performances beside fans wanting to see her in person.

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2 hours ago, Jjang said:

Well, that's the thing. Given her status as a vocal icon and the way she chooses to present herself as a performer it's not enough to just showcase solid vocals only on certain moments, but rather consistently... that's my point. If she worked on bettering her stage craft and vocal approach I wouldn't be writing her off as a performer, but until then I don't see any merit or value to her performances beside fans wanting to see her in person.

I know that delivering solid vocals consistently is important. Which is why i think she should do different arrangements all the time. So she can use the strength of her current voice in all her performances.

By the way. Changing the topic. I want to ask you your opinion about tone. Obviously tone is subjective. But i remember you said you don't like her tone now. And i was wondering, what do you think of her tone here. I like her tone here. But i'd like to know your opinion.

 

https://youtu.be/RJ6T5J7VqC4

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