A lamb's meltdown on the NYE performance

252 posts in this topic

Just now, light741 said:

So where is this notion that they are vocally better coming from?

I literally repeated where that's coming from. They don't have as many vocal fuck-ups, they have a better stage presence, and they can put more emotional believability into their vocal performance, in my opinion. Stop pretending like I wasn't using arguments. And before you will again repeat yourself: no, I do not believe that Demi and Miley are technically superb singers. I do believe that they could actually get into a singing competition with an audition, Mariah could not in any universe, that is my honest to god conviction clap1

And next to someone like Nicole Scherzinger (who isn't even widely noted for her vocals) Mariah too looks like a vocal amateur, so again: what game do you think you're playing? If you will pretend Mariah is superb compared to some of her younger peers, then why can't I play the same card in the opposite direction? brit12

3 minutes ago, light741 said:

Vocally speaking they aren't above Mariah.

Except they can get through a full performance with significantly less vocal fuck-ups lj1

4 minutes ago, light741 said:

But i don't go around saying she should go away like some people here say about Mariah. Both celine and Mariah can still sing. Not like before but they sure can still sing.

Like I already said: I do think there's still room for Mariah 'cause she just has too many fans who want to throw money at her to disappear. But I still think that if you could never have become praised for your vocals if you started out with your current vocals, then you should consider retiring 'cause you're just riding the train of the past and don't deserve it anymore, that is what I personally think and that goes far beyond Mariah, since I treated Whitney the same and treat Xtina the same today aretha1 

And yes I know that the reviews of her latest tour were glowing, but so were artRAVE's and I laugh at reviewers praising Gaga's vocals as much as I laugh at them praising Mariah's gaga7

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Who's the better vocalist? You guess.

vs.

jj4

If someone who isn't even noted for being an excellent vocalist can easily beat one of the biggest vocal icons of the past two generations, then I say it's time for her to consider retiring, and I'd very much appreciate it if people stopped pretending like that was such an unreasonable statement kesha2

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@Earth Ripper Emotions are subjective. Vocally lovato and cyrus have many flaws. They aren't above Mariah. That's my whole point when some people wanted to make a case for them. There are better vocalists than Marah. cyrus and lovato aren't one of them.

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6 hours ago, light741 said:

@Earth Ripper Emotions are subjective. Vocally lovato and cyrus have many flaws. They aren't above Mariah. That's my whole point when some people wanted to make a case for them. There are better vocalists than Marah. cyrus and lovato aren't one of them.

Ok then how about you reply to all the rest ayumi1

Demi and Lovato were never a major part of anyone's argument here. You've just been pretending it was so you can focus on it and ignore all the other arguments, it's so transparent how do you live with yourself ew2

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33 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said:

Ok then how about you reply to all the rest ayumi1

Demi and Lovato were never a major part of anyone's argument here. You've just been pretending it was so you can focus on it and ignore all the other arguments, it's so transparent how do you live with yourself ew2

They are part of the argument. Because they have been named more than once in threads(here and in other forums), as people that leave no room for current Mariah, which is ridiculous. Same with xtina and others. They flaws but it's ok for them to stay and do their thing. But not for Mariah. That's  double standard.

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On 7.1.2017 at 0:17 AM, light741 said:

Your original point was they are better now. Please darling let's not.

 

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You're intolerable. kesha2

Stop lying, my argument was that Mariah can no longer give people what they expect and want from her : superb vocal executions. Therefore, she's useless as a performer and that's my point. I used Demi and Miley as examples of singers who are not even treated as amazing vocalists (here's me saying that they are not technical perfections and that they're not excellent because I know you can't read context) that can outshine her by singing more effectively, how can they sing more effectively? by singing songs with full conviction, which Mariah can't do anymore because a vital and an essential factor to the emotional aspect of her songs rely on how well she executes her power vocals, that's how she sounds vocally effective and can touch people, which is a rarity these days. However, the songs singers such as Miley and Demi choose to perform do not depend on flawless vocal execution, Miley's voice has a unique ring to it that sounds compelling and resonates with millions of people, her pitch, her fast vibrato - that's where she stacks up her emotions and that's where her conviction power as a vocal performer is displayed, that's why she has performances with 100m views and that's based on the public's positive reception which is the exact opposite of what's happening to Mariah : she only gets attention when she's doing horrible, people don't give a shit about high larynx or whatever because they can only judge what they hear, and it's proven that Miley is impressing people far more these days with her vocals than Mariah is, and again, let me repeat why : because what makes her powerful and convincing as a vocal performer is still intact, while what makes Mariah a good one has significantly faded. So there you go, I'm more clear. People are not being harsh on Mariah, if anything, people such as yourself are being far too protective of her, here you have @Urbanov saying that Mariah at her worst is better than Miley / Demi at their best and using one decent performance to back up that argument and then acting like that's more rational than saying these girls can sing more effectively. You're both deluded and over-protective. Anyway, I hope you understand that this argument is not about who's better, Mariah, Demi or Miley, but it's about where Mariah stands as a performer nowadays, so you should counter argument that and not the former.

I already addressed this by the way, but I will repeat it for the sake of hopefully seeing you stop pretending like you didn't get the point : I didn't say there's no room for Mariah as a performer due to Miley being technically superior, I said that there's room for Miley because unlike Mariah her reputation does not solely depend on the condition of her vocals because she brings other elements and dynamics to the table as a performer, where Mariah only has one thing going on for her and that's her voice, but it's far too damaged at this point for anyone to consider her anything but average and that's career suicide when your whole act is based on you being effortlessly outstanding, and when you actually compare her to the superb vocalists (no I'm talking about Demi or Miley this time, before you try it) of our generation she sounds like a complete amateur as @Earth Ripper showed you in this thread.

And no, Madge being one of my faves has nothing to do with my stance regarding this topic. So quit that bs cause it doesn't apply to me. mad9

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40 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

If that's the effectiveness you are talking about

That's not the effectiveness he's talking about and he clearly said so ew2 Like, omg he had to repeat and highlight the fact that he knows they're not technically superb singers so many times now for y'all to get it, and you're still resisting. That's some next level shit tbh.

42 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

And maybe your other friend who stans Madonna.

The one who has been trashing MDNA and Rebel Heart, who has said he wished she just stopped recording/performing after 2009, who has criticized most of her performances since that year, who rejected the "well at least she carried on singing" cover-up excuse for her disastrous BRITs performance, and the one who's constantly calling out her moronic political ideologies? ayumi1 He's clearly a deluded blind Madge stan who makes excuses for everything she does and just wants to hate on Mariah because it's in my Madge fan instincts to do that carla1 You're totally on to me.

No one is harder on his own favs than I am. Besides @Jjang, ironically. So please stop acting like we're some deluded Madge stans who use no arguments and just want to shade for fun just to save your pride or try to win the argument that way or whatever you think you're doing with these weird attacks clap1 I thought I liked you but jeez. If this is the only way you feel you can contribute to this discussion, by picking out sentences and ignoring whole posts, then I guess I don't. So fucking weak and insecure.

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On 8 januari 2017 at 5:18 AM, light741 said:

They are part of the argument. Because they have been named more than once in threads(here and in other forums), as people that leave no room for current Mariah, which is ridiculous. Same with xtina and others. They flaws but it's ok for them to stay and do their thing. But not for Mariah. That's  double standard.

But like I've said before: I'm not one of the people who do that. So reply to my arguments or just end the conversation right here and now brit15 

To repeat: Mariah's horrible vocal performance these days has nothing to do with her peers, imo it is just objectively flawed to the point where she can't get through one verse without trying to cover up a mistake with some unsuccessful attempt at doing vocal runs chi1 The video I posted above, compared to a stunning Nicole Scherzinger (as an example of a vocalist that is not Demi, Miley,... and beats all of them easily), is proof of that. If you're that bad, and yes that is something different from having a few flaws in an overall successful performance, then I'd consider it's time to retire, because your entire reputation rests on your vocal ability (unlike Demi, Miley I might add which makes their vocal flaws less damning, like it or not — and I still want to repeat that Demi and Miley don't fuck up vocally as much as Mariah on any day) lj1 But if she wants to continue, she could and she should because she has enough fans who think she's singing like a beautiful nightingale with her tits out, and I don't care, I won't judge her for that. But I will never call her a good vocalist because she can't get through one song without audibly struggling to just.. sing the damn melody. Even her vocally untalented peers have no problem with that.

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2 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

First of all: I am not quoting you, so there is no need for you to reply for your friend. Are you his assistant or something?

You directly referred to me though lol nicki1 With an insult no less. And now I get more for reading that and defending myself. Great. Unless you meant "Lil Something" by the other friend who stans Madonna but I'm only thinking of that possibility now tbh moo6

6 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

All I'm saying is that I know, you know and we all know that her voice is worse, but she's not "over" or "worse than Demi or Miley" ffs. 

Well, we all know that by now, but that's something we can't agree on because that is entirely subjective oprah11 We simply disagree and we think we have solid proof backing us up, just like you and light think you have solid proof backing you up. I don't even know where to go from here, but it would sure help if people just replied to what was being written instead of making these weird general comments and personal remarks that only slow the convo down (but that's mostly directed to @light741 and not you lol) rih5

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3 minutes ago, Urbanov said:

Why should I insult someone even if I am not agreeing with this particular person? Dude, I am not 14 yo.

Well, saying that I'm acting like my friend's assistant and should basically just shut up wasn't exactly a warm greeting at the door chi1

From your tone now tho I can see that wasn't meant with the hostility I imagined so I'll echo your this disagreement doesn't change a thing sentiment because we only had pleasant encounters in the past moo5 So I'll back off now, and let you settle this effective vocal thing with my boss ny9

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6 hours ago, Urbanov said:

The only thing you can say about Mariah nowadays is that her voice aged with her. She has difficulties with reaching higher belted notes and lower ones are bit pushed which leads to damaged larynx and I am 100% sure she's aware of it (NYE fiasco just proved it). On the other hand, Demi and Miley are using their voices with techniques which are damaging the vocal chords. If that's the effectiveness you are talking about, then the only one person who is deluded here is you. And maybe your other friend who stans Madonna.

Literally read the full post you quoted.

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@Jjang @Earth Ripper The point i got from jjang was that Mariah has no room and lovato, cyrus are better at singing now. That's what he/she said at one point. And that's the main reason why this lasted so long. Because Mariah not singng like she used to doesn't mean she has no room. Specially compared to people like xtina, lovato, cyrus that aren't better vocalists than her.

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3 hours ago, light741 said:

@Jjang @Earth Ripper The point i got from jjang was that Mariah has no room and lovato, cyrus are better at singing now. That's what he/she said at one point. And that's the main reason why this lasted so long. Because Mariah not singng like she used to doesn't mean she has no room. Specially compared to people like xtina, lovato, cyrus that aren't better vocalists than her.

Who cares? You're in a separate conversation with me, I have already said that Mariah has room in the industry, so you repeating that over and over can only mean you're not reading my posts so good fucking bye bey3

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14 hours ago, light741 said:

Because Mariah not singng like she used to doesn't mean she has no room. Specially compared to people like xtina, lovato, cyrus that aren't better vocalists than her.

I literally explained this you moron so reply to that rip4

Whatever, you're a hopeless case. 

Mariah is a fat whale that can't sing bye

7 hours ago, Urbanov said:

jj3 Stick with your opinion that Miley has voice that people likes to hear and her technique is better than Mariah's jj4 

You can literally remove the Miley / Lovato argument and my point would still stand though. That's what you crazy annoying people are not getting.

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4 minutes ago, Jjang said:

You can literally remove the Miley / Lovato argument and my point would still stand though. That's what you crazy annoying people are not getting.

Preach it rih12

Like I said: people are just hanging on for their life at this Miley/Lovato mention (which was never an important element of the argument) so they don't have to address the actually substantial material and can dismiss us as idiots who know nothing lj1 Pathetic.

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@Jjang Mariah can still sing. A being a whale is better than being a pathetic troll. So.

 

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1 minute ago, light741 said:

@Jjang Mariah can still sing. 

That joke is boring now please change it 

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1 hour ago, Earth Ripper said:

Preach it rih12

Like I said: people are just hanging on for their life at this Miley/Lovato mention (which was never an important element of the argument) so they don't have to address the actually substantial material and can dismiss us as idiots who know nothing lj1 Pathetic.

Remove lovatto and cyrus and jjang's point stands still?. Not really because his point was that they are better at singing than current Mariah. And saying Mariah can't sing anymore is just a lie.

 

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Just now, Jjang said:

That joke is boring now please change it 

I don't know what joke you are talking about.

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1 minute ago, light741 said:

Remove lovatto and cyrus and jjang's point stands still?

I can even say Miley is the worst singer on the planet and my point would still stand, but sadly you don't have the gift of being able to follow context. Go back to school

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