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Vesper

Lemonade Beyhive meltdown

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I struggle a bit on this - there is definitely a problem when Adele sweeps everything twice in a row.  25 was a a massive success, but I think if you looks at it in terms of comparing it to 21, it wasn't on the same scale, there was 1 huge smash and then one other song that performed well.  The era ended pretty quickly in terms of relevancy.  

I'm a huge Taylor stan but I also understand the anger at her winning last year.  1989 was a huge smash that affected op culture for a full year and a half, but Kendrick also had so much more critical acclaim over her.  I can see both sides on this.  

 

I think what should have happened is that Adele and beyonce should have split the Big three in some way.  Lemonade should have won AoTY and Hello should have won the other two, or something.  I think the fact that Adele swept indicates the magnitude of the problem.  

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33 minutes ago, Devil Pray said:

When Lauryn Hill won Album of the Year no one was racist, but when the overrated Beyonce loses.... um3

and how many black female artists have won since then?

how many black albums with ORIGINAL material have won since then?

how many black artists have won best new artist since Lauryn Hill?

song of the year?

record of the year?

 

LH had the more critically acclaimed album to begin with dead4 

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Beyonce only has 22 Grammys. How dare they. Racism! alex1

She should win 15 Grammys per album! Always in all main categories so fans could be happy!  alex1

If she doesn't win in biggest categories every time it's because of racism! alex1

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Angelus said:

Beyonce only has 22 Grammys. How dare they. Racism! alex1

 

She should win 15 Grammys per album! Always in all main categories so fans could be happy!  alex1

If she doesn't win in biggest categories every time it's because of racism! alex1

 

 

 

boycott the grammys for spreading racism alex1

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Just now, John Wayne said:

no one's hating on beyonce here jj4

it's just that her fans overreact jj4

Those sarcastic posts attempting to being witty and dismiss the actual issue are still extra and just plain idiotic rav2 

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7 minutes ago, Angelus said:

Beyonce only has 22 Grammys. How dare they. Racism! alex1

She should win 15 Grammys per album! Always in all main categories so fans could be happy!  alex1

If she doesn't win in biggest categories every time it's because of racism! alex1

 

 

 

In Black Categories where white people don't vote or are the minority nat1 

It's not even about Beyonce. It's the lack of Black Artists represented in each of the big 4.

 

Best New Artist? Last artist to win before Chance - Lauryn Hill in 1999 nat1 

Song of The Year? 3 times in the past 20 years nat1 

Record of The Year? 1996 - Ray Charles doesn't count because his Grammy was a pity Grammy for him dying nat1 

Album of the Year? Outkast in 2003 was the last original material black artist to win nat1 

 

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1 minute ago, Infrared said:

In Black Categories where white people don't vote or are the minority nat1 

It's not even about Beyonce. It's the lack of Black Artists represented in each of the big 4.

 

Best New Artist? Last artist to win before Chance - Lauryn Hill in 1999 nat1 

Song of The Year? 3 times in the past 20 years nat1 

Record of The Year? 1996 - Ray Charles doesn't count because his Grammy was a pity Grammy for him dying nat1 

Album of the Year? Outkast in 2003 was the last original material black artist to win nat1 

 

Oh please. Black artists are among most awarded ones.

You're just bitching because your fave is not winning in MAIN categories.

 

 

Madonna lost AOTY to Lauren in 1999. 3 black females won AOTY in 90s and only 1 white one. RACISM!!!!!

 

You're literally accusing plenty of people in Grammy committee (people of all races) for racism because BEYONCE LOST MAIN AWARD.

 

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Racism as a systemic issue does not exist against whites in Western culture. 

 

Racial prejudice and discrimination  against whites definitely do exist, but until it's systemic, it is NOT comparable to racism as it affects black Americans and other minorities in the West, and hence the distinction of not calling it racism. Racism is reserved for the systemic discrimination against a certain race, not for personally motivated racial prejudices.

 

So saying "omg racism against whites exist!" Or "omg that's racist against whites!" is really crying about something that's not really a problem compared to the systemic racial injustices that POC face on a daily basis. 

 

P.S. I'm not white. jj2 

An eloquent, well thought out reply brit0 Fair enough.

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I'm still shocked ANTI wasn't nominated. I mean, who even cares about Simpson Sturgill's album when there were better albums being released constantly throughout the year? If they cared about musical excellence in the first place, people like Grimes, Enya, Santigold, PJ Harvey etc would be getting nominated alongside Beyoncé. Instead, we're stuck being reminded that Drake released one of the most boring records of 2016, Adele released the same album again, Justin Bieber released one of the shittiest pop albums of the decade, and that Simpson Sturgill exists. Stans should've never took award shows like these seriously, but I digress.

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2 minutes ago, Angelus said:

Oh please. Black artists are among most awarded ones.

You're just bitching because your fave is not winning in MAIN categories.

 

 

Madonna lost AOTY to Lauren in 1999. 3 black females won AOTY in 90s and only 1 white one. RACISM!!!!!

 

You're literally accusing plenty of people in Grammy committee (people of all races) for racism because BEYONCE LOST MAIN AWARD.

 

not the all lives matter crowd coming in fall6 

 

Let's take a look

The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill : 19 M copies sold WW, 8 million in U.S, Genre defining album, more critically acclaimed

Ray of Light : 16 M copies sold WW, 4.5 million in U.S, less critically acclaimed

 

Point me to any receipt that justifies why Ray of Light should've won over LH nat1  It would make sense if Madonna was more critically acclaimed, but she didn't even have that. 

 

You're not getting the point. If a category was only made for BLACK people, and BLACK people are voting, it's not that hard for an artist to rack up Grammy counts in respective categories.

 

Only 10 black artists have won Album of the Year in Grammy history: Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Natalie Cole, Lionel Richie, Lauryn Hill, Outkast, Herbie Hancock, Whitney Houston, and Quincy Jones. No Marvin Gaye. No Aretha Franklin

 

Let's answer these basic questions 

Did you think Kendrick Lamar should've won over Taylor, a person with an album of a score 96 - almost one of the highest scores an album has ever received nat1 

Do you think Macklemore should've won over Kendrick for best rap album nat1 

Do you think an album with a MC score of 75 is better than an album with a score of 92? Just holistically speaking nat1 

 

Why are you even bringing up the 90's when the Grammy industry has gotten more racist as the year's have gone by. It's not a problem with females, it's a problem with skin color nat1 

 

KPOP and JPOP aren't relevant in American music and Latino music is featured in Latin Grammy's, so it's literally just white and black people, but thanks for the try nat1 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hylia said:

I'm still shocked ANTI wasn't nominated. I mean, who even cares about Simpson Sturgill's album when there were better albums being released constantly throughout the year? If they cared about musical excellence in the first place, people like Grimes, Enya, Santigold, PJ Harvey etc would be getting nominated alongside Beyoncé. Instead, we're stuck being reminded that Drake released one of the most boring records of 2016, Adele released the same album again, Justin Bieber released one of the shittiest pop albums of the decade, and that Simpson Sturgill exists. Stans should've never took award shows like these seriously, but I digress.

For R&B music, ANTi isn't that groundbreaking. Yes, it should've been nominated over Views or Purpose, but as someone who takes R&B and Alt-R&B somewhat seriously, ANTi doesn't hold a candle dead4 

and in that case the vote would've been split more rip3 

 

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Just now, Infrared said:

For R&B music, ANTi isn't that groundbreaking. Yes, it should've been nominated over Views or Purpose, but as someone who takes R&B and Alt-R&B somewhat seriously, ANTi doesn't hold a candle dead4 

and in that case the vote would've been split more rip3 

 

I agree because I don't care for ANTI, but to nominate Simpson or Justin over Rhat when she obliterated them last year is just laughable 

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32 minutes ago, Infrared said:

not the all lives matter crowd coming in fall6 

 

Let's take a look

The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill : 19 M copies sold WW, 8 million in U.S, Genre defining album, more critically acclaimed

Ray of Light : 16 M copies sold WW, 4.5 million in U.S, less critically acclaimed

 

Point me to any receipt that justifies why Ray of Light should've won over LH nat1  It would make sense if Madonna was more critically acclaimed, but she didn't even have that. 

 

You're not getting the point. If a category was only made for BLACK people, and BLACK people are voting, it's not that hard for an artist to rack up Grammy counts in respective categories.

 

Only 10 black artists have won Album of the Year in Grammy history: Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Natalie Cole, Lionel Richie, Lauryn Hill, Outkast, Herbie Hancock, Whitney Houston, and Quincy Jones. No Marvin Gaye. No Aretha Franklin

 

Let's answer these basic questions 

Did you think Kendrick Lamar should've won over Taylor, a person with an album of a score 96 - almost one of the highest scores an album has ever received nat1 

Do you think Macklemore should've won over Kendrick for best rap album nat1 

Do you think an album with a MC score of 75 is better than an album with a score of 92? Just holistically speaking nat1 

 

Why are you even bringing up the 90's when the Grammy industry has gotten more racist as the year's have gone by. It's not a problem with females, it's a problem with skin color nat1 

 

KPOP and JPOP aren't relevant in American music and Latino music is featured in Latin Grammy's, so it's literally just white and black people, but thanks for the try nat1 

 

 

First of all Lauryn's album didn't sell 19m ww, wikipedia is not a source. Check other certifications around the world.

Ok, let's have a look:

25: sold 25m, mostly self-written and self produced, not mainstream, ww hits

Lemonade: sold 2.5m, bunch of people working on every single track more than artist herself, mainstream, no ww hits

 

So according to receipts (that you also posted), 25 deserved more to win. So case closed. clap3 

 

Let's also look at this

Most wins (excluded producers and composers) [black artists]:

22 Stevie Wonder (#2 male overall)

22 Beyonce (#2 female overall)

21 Kanye (#3 male)

21 Jay-Z (#4 male)

18 Aretha (#3 female)

15 Alicia Keys (#4 female)

13 Ella F (#5 female)

etc etc.

 

Black artists ARE winning AWARDS.

It's DISGUSTING to me how beyhive started SCREAMING racism in recent years (since self-titled) everytime she loses MAIN award. DO YOU SEE RIHANNA STANS DOING THE SAME? NO.

 

Calling this racism is an INSULT to artists who actually FACED it in the industry when they were banned from TV and radios. Black artists are on top of the charts now, top of the radios, top of the WORLD. They are ACCLAIMED.

 

95% of the time Grammys here and in industry are called 'Popularity contest' (and 25 IS more popular album), but suddenly it became about most acclaimed albums, right? Well guess what? Most acclaimed album of the year (Skeleton Tree) had 95 score, and it received ZERO nominations. That alone dismissed everything you said here. Bye.

 

P.S. Fun fact: Madonna's Like a Prayer has same score as Lemonade and it received ZERO Grammy nominations.

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Angelus said:

First of all Lauryn's album didn't sell 19m ww, wikipedia is not a source. Check other certifications around the world.

Ok, let's have a look:

25: sold 25m, mostly self-written and self produced, not mainstream, ww hits

Lemonade: sold 2.5m, bunch of people working on every single track more than artist herself, mainstream, no ww hits

 

So according to receipts (that you also posted), 25 deserved more to win. So case closed. clap3 

 

Let's also look at this

Most wins (excluded producers and composers) [black artists]:

22 Stevie Wonder (#2 male overall)

22 Beyonce (#2 female overall)

21 Kanye (#3 male)

21 Jay-Z (#4 male)

18 Aretha (#3 female)

15 Alicia Keys (#4 female)

13 Ella F (#5 female)

etc etc.

 

Black artists ARE winning AWARDS.

It's DISGUSTING to me how beyhive started SCREAMING racism in recent years (since self-titled) everytime she loses MAIN award. DO YOU SEE RIHANNA STANS DOING THE SAME? NO.

 

Calling this racism is an INSULT to artists who actually FACED it in the industry when they were banned from TV and radios. Black artists are on top of the charts now, top of the radios, top of the WORLD. They are ACCLAIMED.

 

95% of the time Grammys here and in industry are called 'Popularity contest' (and 25 IS more popular album), but suddenly it became about most acclaimed albums, right? Well guess what? Most acclaimed album of the year (Skeleton Tree) had 95 score, and it received ZERO nominations. That alone dismissed everything you said here. Bye.

 

P.S. Fun fact: Madonna's Like a Prayer has same score as Lemonade and it received ZERO Grammy nominations.

 

 

 

 

 

you keep bringing up the same receipts that I've answered, so it's clear you don't understand the conversation.

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1 minute ago, Infrared said:

you keep bringing up the same receipts that I've answered, so it's clear you don't understand the conversation.

You answered shit.

 

 

Quote

95% of the time Grammys here and in industry are called 'Popularity contest' (and 25 IS more popular album), but suddenly it became about most acclaimed albums, right? Well guess what? Most acclaimed album of the year (Skeleton Tree) had 95 score, and it received ZERO nominations

 

 

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@Angelus Very good arguments. interesting1 

 

If Grammys were really about critical acclaim, then the 5 nominees would be:

1. Skeleton Tree by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds

2. Lemonade by Beyonce (Black artist)

3. You Want It Darker by Leonard Cohen

4. We Got It From Here... Thank You For Your Service by A Tribe Called Quest (Black artists)

5. Coloring Book by Chance the Rapper (Black artist)

So why are Bieber, Drake, Adele and that other guy nominated at all, considering their albums are not the most critically acclaimed of the year? nat1 

So using the argument that AOTY is purely about critical acclaim and quality is really a bunk argument, isn't it? interesting1 @Infrared

 

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2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

@Angelus Very good arguments. interesting1 

 

If Grammys were really about critical acclaim, then the 5 nominees would be:

1. Skeleton Tree by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds

2. Lemonade by Beyonce (Black artist)

3. You Want It Darker by Leonard Cohen

4. We Got It From Here... Thank You For Your Service by A Tribe Called Quest (Black artists)

5. Coloring Book by Chance the Rapper (Black artist)

So why are Bieber, Drake, Adele and that other guy nominated at all, considering their albums are not the most critically acclaimed of the year? nat1 

So using the argument that AOTY is purely about critical acclaim and quality is really a bunk argument, isn't it? interesting1 @Infrared

 

I'm not saying Grammy is only about critical acclaim. It was about QUALITY first, and then impact and sales. Now it switches like the light switch to give to any singer. 

Adele won because of her sales, before the quality of the album. If sales is the first factor, it's no better than a Billboard award dead4 

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