More iconic: BOMT or GJWHV?

[Savage 17,300]

26 minutes ago, Cruella de Vil said:

They do which is why Toxic still gets played more. 

Anyway, I refuse to give Britney an ounce of recognition for anything she's done and achieved. We all know what a label puppet she is and that hardly anything she did truly came from her. 

She's also far from being as iconic as Britards on here and Exhell claim, I'm sorry. 

Britney is an iconic legend in the pop scene, it is not wise to discredit her when her impact is manifested in the new crop of pop girls but honestly, and this is coming from someone who will defend her to no end just in case of cruel attacks, her natural talent(s) and creative juices will always get questioned. 

As for her contribution/ control game, i believe she's not in control of her everything as it is the case of Madonna/Beyoncé, like you can say anything about these two, but they're clearly in control of everything, like they way Beyoncé chose to release her self-titled album, or how she edits her visuals herself, also Madonna controlling everything even the way her "SexBook" got packaged in a condom-like case. 

[Simón. 28,789]

17 minutes ago, Cruella de Vil said:

@BJORK @Carlos @Taylor @Justin Bieber I'm very disappointed in you guys.

sorry daddy

[Vesper 5,443]

GJWHF is one of the most iconic pop songs in history for sure, but I would also have to think that the fact that Ms. Lauper had such a huge classic hit yet remains unknown says volumes; i know people who thought it was Madonna's song...  

In comparison, BOMT is just as immediately recognizable, just as reknown worldwide and as much of a classic hit from one decade later, but it is also immediately attached to Britney Spears' persona, her celebrity, and her status as pop icon. Because there are so many hit classics by unknown no1currs out there, (not particularly talking about Cyndi, but not unparticularly talking about her either ) I think hit singles that are also known to represent an era AND the artist should be weighed more heavily.  

 

 

[Carlos 8,453]

3 hours ago, Cruella de Vil said:

@BJORK @Carlos @Taylor @Justin Bieber I'm very disappointed in you guys.

drag moi

I was just kidding, boo. I'm just letting this thread be what it wants it to be.

 

 

[havok 1,971]

18 hours ago, WinnieThePooh said:

BOMT, mor people can name the artist as well as the song. 

While in GJWHF's case more people know the song, than the artist. 

Regardless, both are more impactful than any Madonna single. So that's always a plus 

This is about the songs, not the artist, so that's completely irrelevant. GJWHV is far more iconic and clearly the bigger classic. 

Impact is a whole different topic, none of these songs are more impactful than Madge's classics.  

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

GJWHF is one of the most iconic pop songs in history for sure, but I would also have to think that the fact that Ms. Lauper had such a huge classic hit yet remains unknown says volumes; i know people who thought it was Madonna's song...  

In comparison, BOMT is just as immediately recognizable, just as reknown worldwide and as much of a classic hit from one decade later, but it is also immediately attached to Britney Spears' persona, her celebrity, and her status as pop icon. Because there are so many hit classics by unknown no1currs out there, (not particularly talking about Cyndi, but not unparticularly talking about her either ) I think hit singles that are also known to represent an era AND the artist should be weighed more heavily.  

 

 

According to the receipts they are NOT on the same level. Cyndi's song is clearly superior in all counts, despite the fact that it's 15 years older.  Also, Girls is one of the most representative pop songs from the '80s and it's Cyndi's signature song, so everything you claimed in favor of Meth's song applies to it too.  I can't at britards' logic, accepting Girls as the winner but trying to give it to BOMT instead because "no one knows about Cindy"  .  

[Earth Ripper 4,994]

6 hours ago, Cruella de Vil said:

Are ppl seriously claiming that a Shitney song is more iconic than the one of the most covered, most referenced female pop songs of all time? I beg to differ.

Ok, but don't act like people don't have their reasons, you know I'm quite surprised anyone came in here thinking this was a clear cut situation, like either of the songs would automatically win, no question. It's just not like that.. 

To add some more material: BOMT is in the top 50 of best-selling physical singles of all time, while GJWHF is not (it also sold extremely less in its first years after release compared to BOMT's global smash success), so based on that alone these "omg how can you think BOMT is more iconic" remarks should end right now The music video is consistently mentioned as one of the most influential/best video's of the 90s (up to today), it's the best performing female 90s music video on YouTube, it's still being covered and has been covered by a range of artists from very different genres, it's still being listed as one of the best pop songs ever released in quality publications, a recently as 2012 it was chosen by the UK public as their seventh favorite song,... It would be hard to find equivalent receipts for GJWHF, at least ones that definitively prove it's more iconic than BOMT.

So provide arguments, not shade, your personal feelings about Britney are 100% off-topic even though I agree with them in this instance Britney as a person isn't relevant when we're talking about how successful a song is/was. Saying this song is more iconic than Cyndi's, like I've done, is not praise to Britney or whatever, it's just a simple observation.

[Earth Ripper 4,994]

3 hours ago, Selig said:

According to the receipts they are NOT on the same level. Cyndi's song is clearly superior in all counts, despite the fact that it's 15 years older.

Commercial sales though

[Vesper 5,443]

3 hours ago, Selig said:

This is about the songs, not the artist, so that's completely irrelevant. GJWHV is far more iconic and clearly the bigger classic. 

Impact is a whole different topic, none of these songs are more impactful than Madge's classics.  

According to the receipts they are NOT on the same level. Cyndi's song is clearly superior in all counts, despite the fact that it's 15 years older.  Also, Girls is one of the most representative pop songs from the '80s and it's Cyndi's signature song, so everything you claimed in favor of Meth's song applies to it too.  I can't at britards' logic, accepting Girls as the winner but trying to give it to BOMT instead because "no one knows about Cindy"  .  

Stop trying to make it sound like I don't like GJWHF, it's one of my favorite tracks from the 80s...  

It's clearly an iconic 80s staple, just like BOMT is an iconic 90s staple, but one song was a huge hit and remembered for the song (which was a cover, btw), but not the artist, and the other was a huge hit and remembered for BOTH the song AND the artist. 

Also, since you said Cyndi's song is SUPERIOR ON ALL COUNTS (and only providing spotify stream / youtube views as the sole indicator of iconic status?  ) , the sales receipts prove otherwise: BOMT hit #1 in all markets it appeared in, and GJWHF didn't. Certified sales has BOMT US sales at 5 million + and it's one of the best selling singles OF ALL TIME, and GJWHF is at 2 million + in the US and isn't. GJWHF has multiple grammys going for it, but it definitely doesn't beat BOMT ON ALL COUNTS.  

 

and lastly, I think an iconic hit song that is undeniably at the core of the identity of one of the biggest pop stars in history > an iconic hit song by an (admittedly great) former pop artist that people don't even remember anymore.  

 

And since impact is more than just sales, here is the wiki section on impact of BOMT (single):

Quote

"…Baby One More Time" was listed at number twenty five in the greatest pop songs since 1963, in a list compiled by Rolling Stone and MTV in 2000.^[111]Blender listed it at number two in The 500 Greatest Songs Since You Were Born.^[10] The song was also listed as the 2nd best song of the 1990s by VH1^[112] and in a listing compiled in 2003, ranked at number one in 100 Best Songs of the Past 25 Years.^[113] Bill Lamb of About.com ranked "...Baby One More Time" at number one on a compiled list with the Top 40 Pop Songs Of All Time.^[114] The music video was voted the third most influential promo in the history of pop music on a poll held by Jam!.^[115] "…Baby One More Time" is also one of the best-selling singles of all time, with over 9 million copies sold,^[116] and also earned Spears's first nomination for a Grammy Award for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance.^[117] In April 2005, the British TV network ITV aired a short series called Hit Me, Baby, One More Time hosted by Vernon Kay.^[118] The show pitted one-hit wonders who generally had their moments of fame in the 1980s against each other to play their own hits and a currently popular cover song.^[118] The favorites were chosen by audience voting.^[118] The American version of the show also aired on NBC later in the year, and it was also hosted by Kay.^[119] In the 2012 poll created by The Official Chart Company and ITV to discover The Nation's Favourite Number 1 Single of all-time, "…Baby One More Time" was listed as the seventh favorite song by the United Kingdom.^[120]

Spears became an international pop culture icon immediately after launching her recording career. Rolling Stone magazine wrote: "One of the most controversial and successful female vocalists of the 21st century," she "spearheaded the rise of post-millennial teen pop ... Spears early on cultivated a mixture of innocence and experience that broke the bank".^[121] Barbara Ellen of The Observer has reported: "Spears is famously one of the 'oldest' teenagers pop has ever produced, almost middle aged in terms of focus and determination. Many 19-year-olds haven't even started working by that age, whereas Britney, a former Mouseketeer, was that most unusual and volatile of American phenomena — a child with a full-time career. While other little girls were putting posters on their walls, Britney was wanting to be the poster on the wall. Whereas other children develop at their own pace, Britney was developing at a pace set by the ferociously competitive American entertainment industry".^[122]

Scott Plagenhoef of Pitchfork noted "songs like Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", Dr. Dre's "Nothing But a G Thang", and Britney Spears's "...Baby One More Time" altered the landscape of pop culture so quickly in large part because they were delivered to all corners of the U.S. simultaneously by MTV. [...] MTV's ability to place a song and musician into the pop music conversation was unparalleled at the time, and by the end of the decade that meant absurd levels of both financial and creative commitment to music videos."^[123] PopMatters writer Evan Sawdey commented that Spears's concept for the music video of the song was the one responsible for her immediate success, saying that, as a result, the singer "scored a massive No. 1 single, inadvertently started the late '90s teen pop boom, and created a public persona for herself that was simultaneously kid-friendly and pure male fantasy. Her videos got played on both MTV and the Disney Channel at the same time, showing just how well Spears (and her armies of PR handlers) managed to walk that fine line between family-friendly pop idol and unabashed sex object."^[124]

[havok 1,971]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

Stop trying to make it sound like I don't like GJWHF, it's one of my favorite tracks from the 80s...  

It's clearly an iconic 80s staple, just like BOMT is an iconic 90s staple, but one song was a huge hit and remembered for the song (which was a cover, btw), but not the artist, and the other was a huge hit and remembered for BOTH the song AND the artist. 

Also, since you said Cyndi's song is SUPERIOR ON ALL COUNTS (and only providing spotify stream / youtube views as the sole indicator of iconic status?  ) , the sales receipts prove otherwise: BOMT hit #1 in all markets it appeared in, and GJWHF didn't. Certified sales has BOMT US sales at 5 million + and it's one of the best selling singles OF ALL TIME, and GJWHF is at 2 million + in the US and isn't. GJWHF has multiple grammys going for it, but it definitely doesn't beat BOMT ON ALL COUNTS.  

 

and lastly, I think an iconic hit song that is undeniably at the core of the identity of one of the biggest pop stars in history > an iconic hit song by an (admittedly great) former pop artist that people don't even remember anymore.  

 

And since impact is more than just sales, here is the wiki section on impact of BOMT (single):

And? The fact that Cyndi failed to acquire a more prominent career won't take away Girls' merits as a song.  

I'm comparing their streaming numbers because that's the fairest comparison one can do. Physical sales peaked when BOMT was released, and it was closer to the digital era as well. The fact that the difference is only 3m despite BOMT huge advantage speaks volumes.  But fine, Girls is superior in all counts except for single sales. Satisfied? 

That's just your opinion tho. The fact that the corpse had the bigger career literally doesn't matter at all, we're comparing the songs! So, are we supposed to pretend that  "Maracena" is not one of the most successful and biggest singles ever just because no one knows who they are?  Slay that logic! 

 

[Vesper 5,443]

16 minutes ago, Selig said:

And? The fact that Cyndi failed to acquire a more prominent career won't take away Girls' merits as a song.  

I'm comparing their streaming numbers because that's the fairest comparison one can do. Physical sales peaked when BOMT was released, and it was closer to the digital era as well. The fact that the difference is only 3m despite BOMT huge advantage speaks volumes.  But fine, Girls is superior in all counts except for single sales. Satisfied? 

That's just your opinion tho. The fact that the corpse had the bigger career literally doesn't matter at all, we're comparing the songs! So, are we supposed to pretend that  "Maracena" is not one of the most successful and biggest singles ever just because no one knows who they are?  Slay that logic! 

 

*Says "That's just your opinion tho" in an Opinion-based thread that has a poll at the top of the page"* 

 

Sales wise, the difference is 3 million US sales, WW sales BOMT trounces GJWHF, sales advantage or not.. Just sayin'. 

IIRC there is no set standard definition of what defines "iconic pop song", and there definitely isn't some sort of authority over "which song is more iconic than the other". The whole thing is subjective, depending on how you define iconic, and so I like to think that the artist behind the song matters to the song's iconic status, otherwise songs like "Happy Birthday" or "Jingle Bells" could be considered more iconic than most of the biggest pop songs in existence, which I don't think is right.  So, given that I define iconic songs based on their impact not just on sales and impact as a standalone piece of music, but considering their influence overall as a piece of cultural artifact especially for the general public in what they think and associate with the song and how influential the song was in the general psyche of the public, I'm making the argument that a song whose first three notes is more instantly recognizable than most careers is more iconic than GJWHF.  

[Savage 17,300]

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[Gilly 12,318]

11 hours ago, Cruella de Vil said:

Are ppl seriously claiming that a Shitney song is more iconic than the one of the most covered, most referenced female pop songs of all time? I beg to differ.

The only place where I hear that song still is at Throwback parties were ppl just like to mock it and it's only the girls who sings along. The guys literally leave the stage immediately as this song comes on.  Toxic and Oops are more iconic but none of them are as iconic as GJWHF.

yeah, her most iconic songs are bomt, oops and toxic but bomt is #1. 

[Angelus 11,476]

1 minute ago, Gilly said:

yeah, her most iconic songs are bomt, oops and toxic but bomt is #1. 

I think Toxic is pretty much her #1 hit, Baby has nostalgia factor, Toxic has universal appeal and it's not attached to teenpop era.

[Gilly 12,318]

wtf at the delusional ass ppl in here  

idk about yall, but one of my OLDEST childhood memories regarding pop music is watching the BOMT video on TV, and I was only 4 when it came out  i dont think you will EVER meet a human on earth (bar maybe old ass people) that wont instantly recognize the opening beat followed by "oh baby how was i supposed to know"  

 

dont get me wrong tho, GJWHF is also SUPER iconic and memorable, but nobody knows cyndi sings it. I've known that song since I was a little kid, but literally, if it wasn't for FOTP, i would've never found out who sang it and I think a lot of the public are in the same position.

EVERYBODY knows britney and that she destroyed the world with BOMT. Stop the delusion. And im not even a britney "stan," but BOMT is clearly the most iconic debut single by a pop singer. I actually think it's the most iconic pop girl single BAR maybe i will always love you. 

[Gilly 12,318]

16 minutes ago, Angelus said:

I think Toxic is pretty much her #1 hit, Baby has nostalgia factor, Toxic has universal appeal and it's not attached to teenpop era.

toxic is played more nowadays because it doesn't sound dated, but just because a song sounds dated, it doesnt make it any less of an iconic hit. If anything, mega "dated" iconic hits are usually BIGGER and more iconic because at some point in time, they were driving forces behind certain musical era that dominated the pop scene. Toxic was a smash, but BOMT was a smash that helped changed pop music, which is why it's more influential and iconic. BOMT just sounds dated because it came out of an era that EXPLODED thanks to britney (and others of course). The most iconic and successful singles of all time all sound dated af for the same reason. If someone ever asked you to describe the pop music world in the late 90s/early 00s, BOMT would be one of the prime examples to present. Toxic is played more but it didnt change the pop music world like BOMT did. 

[Gilly 12,318]

oh and justice for CRAZY  my fav godney song ever  ugh not this thread getting me back into BOMT  sometimes  i run  sometimes I HIDE  sometimes im scared of you  

[Angelus 11,476]

5 minutes ago, Gilly said:

toxic is played more nowadays because it doesn't sound dated, but just because a song sounds dated, it doesnt make it any less of an iconic hit. If anything, mega "dated" iconic hits are usually BIGGER and more iconic because at some point in time, they were driving forces behind certain musical era that dominated the pop scene. Toxic was a smash, but BOMT was a smash that helped changed pop music, which is why it's more influential and iconic. BOMT just sounds dated because it came out of an era that EXPLODED thanks to britney (and others of course). The most iconic and successful singles of all time all sound dated af for the same reason. If someone ever asked you to describe the pop music world in the late 90s/early 00s, BOMT would be one of the prime examples to present. Toxic is played more but it didnt change the pop music world like BOMT did. 

I didn't say that BOMT isn't her #1 because it sounds dated (but it does ), it belongs to that late 90s teenpop era that Spice Girls started, and it has nostalgia attached to it. It was product of its time, once that era died most songs (and even acts) from that time died too (same happened to disco music/artists when disco died).

 

BOMT feels/felt bigger in pop culture, Toxic in real life.

 

 

 

[havok 1,971]

17 hours ago, Vesper said:

*Says "That's just your opinion tho" in an Opinion-based thread that has a poll at the top of the page"* 

Sales wise, the difference is 3 million US sales, WW sales BOMT trounces GJWHF, sales advantage or not.. Just sayin'. 

IIRC there is no set standard definition of what defines "iconic pop song", and there definitely isn't some sort of authority over "which song is more iconic than the other". The whole thing is subjective, depending on how you define iconic, and so I like to think that the artist behind the song matters to the song's iconic status, otherwise songs like "Happy Birthday" or "Jingle Bells" could be considered more iconic than most of the biggest pop songs in existence, which I don't think is right.  So, given that I define iconic songs based on their impact not just on sales and impact as a standalone piece of music, but considering their influence overall as a piece of cultural artifact especially for the general public in what they think and associate with the song and how influential the song was in the general psyche of the public, I'm making the argument that a song whose first three notes is more instantly recognizable than most careers is more iconic than GJWHF.  

Aren't you fighting "my opinion" tho? Where did your common sense go?  Also, then I guess anyone can claim any song as iconic because it fits one's convenient and self-made definition of iconic.  

Was Girls' physical single even sold outside of the US tho? BOMT was released during the all-time peak of physical sales and closer to the digital era than Cyndi's song but bravo to the corpse I guess.  It appears Gilrs outdoes BOMT in anything else.  

So you really think that BOMT is more iconic than Happy fucking Birthday and Jingle Bells? omg, you're hopeless.  You're probably the most deluded Methney stan I have ever encountered. If it's all about opinions then why are you arguing with me exactly?  

16 hours ago, Gilly said:

toxic is played more nowadays because it doesn't sound dated, but just because a song sounds dated, it doesnt make it any less of an iconic hit. If anything, mega "dated" iconic hits are usually BIGGER and more iconic because at some point in time, they were driving forces behind certain musical era that dominated the pop scene. Toxic was a smash, but BOMT was a smash that helped changed pop music, which is why it's more influential and iconic. BOMT just sounds dated because it came out of an era that EXPLODED thanks to britney (and others of course). The most iconic and successful singles of all time all sound dated af for the same reason. If someone ever asked you to describe the pop music world in the late 90s/early 00s, BOMT would be one of the prime examples to present. Toxic is played more but it didnt change the pop music world like BOMT did. 

Bubblegum-pop was already the it sound when Meth released BOMT. Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys and Nsync had had hits already. It was already popular by the time the puppet jumped in. You clearly know nothing.  

[Gilly 12,318]

50 minutes ago, Selig said:

Aren't you fighting "my opinion" tho? Where did your common sense go?  Also, then I guess we all can claim any song as iconic because it fits our convenient and self-made definition of iconic.  

Was Girls' physical single even sold outside of the US tho? BOMT was released during the all-time peak of physical sales and closer to the digital era than Cyndi's song but bravo to the corpse I guess.  It appears Gilrs outdoes BOMT in anything else.  

So you really think that BOMT is more iconic than Happy fucking Birthday and Jingle Bells? omg, you're hopeless.  You're probably the most deluded Methney stan I have ever encountered. If it's all about opinions then why are you arguing with me exactly?  

Bubblegum-pop was already the it sound when Meth released BOMT. Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys and Nsync had had hits already. It was already popular by the time the puppet jumped in. You clearly know nothing.  

never did i say Britney was solely responsible for the bubblegum craze, nor that BOMT was the first bubblegum pop song to smash but she played a huge role on how HUGE bubblegum pop became in the late 90s/early 00s.  Kinda like how Gaga wasn't SOLELY responsible for the explosion of dance/electro in pop music, nor the first one to smash with it, but she played a BIG role (along with others like BEP) to push it to the forefront of mainstream pop. Plus, Britney is bigger than both Spice Girls and Backstreet Boys (even if they had slightly bigger album sales). BOMT + Oops > their careers. 

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

@Earth Ripper @Gilly

Actually, because BOMT is so intertwined with the dynamic of Britney's career and the nostalgia of her prime is why I believe a song like GJWHF is more celebrated. An anthem of that caliber will beat a signature hit of a pop girl, even when she's as huge as Britney fucking Spears, 9 out of 10 times.  The more Britney will become a tad bore to witness and talk about and eventually forgotten over the course of the next decades, the more GJWHF will remain consistent because it's isolated from the social dynamics of Cyndi's career / legacy, it will remain an anthem just about forever, because the theme never runs old meanwhile the idea of people running back to Britney' catalogue 15 years from now sounds unrealistic to me with every new generation Britney's signature hits will just become less and less recognizable imo  I mean, we live in the post - 90's / early 00's era where today's teenagers / young adults consider those times to be the most nostalgic for them, obviously reflected in the music that will consequently result in a massive advantage for Britney, but despite that, GJWHF has exactly 100 million views more on YouTube and like double the streams on Spotify  

Somehow I struggle to imagine a world where BOMT still has the same heat around it in 2032, whereas GJWHF is succeeding at just that We'll see how the new(er) generation reacts to it. As for now, the receipts are on my side.