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CalixSpurius

Will Beyoncé Ever Be As Legendary As Madonna ?

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I do not think any pop stars are universally so highly regarded as Michael Jackson and Madonna aka King and Queen of Pop but currently Beyoncé is seen as the biggest current star in the pop world. 

Beyonce has emerged as a supreme touring force with On the Run Tour and Formation Tour + she is treated like a Goddess who cannot do anything wrong by music media; on the other hand, Madonna is respected as a legend even though she has been the Queen of Controversy by challenging the status quo in every way she could for 2 decades until liberalism level of US barely started to catch up to Madonna's. 

I am not questioning Beyoncé's activism but she's a partly black woman whose activism is focused on racial equality and feminism. Madonna has been the activist of anything and everything in times where people were expected to publicly lambaste "homosexual life style" on mainstream national TV so it is obvious that Beyoncé's social influence and courage to be an outcast cannot be compared to Madonna. 

Considering all these factors, I don't think Beyoncé will ever be as legendary as Madonna even if she keeps being hugely successful because she is way too in the box in my opinion. 

 

Do you guys think if it's possible for Beyoncé to be considered as legendary as Madonna, let's say, 20 years from now ? Why ? 

Spoiler

I said she is partly black because she's mixed, she is seen merely as black because of American obsession with racial purity, white being the purest resulting in ridiculous one-drop rule. Obama's mother is white too. 

 

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I don't think she will surpass Madonna. It's virtually imposible. But if she keeps working hard she will cement herself as one of the biggest music legends. She's already the biggest icon from her generation. 

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I said she is partly black because she's mixed, she is seen merely as black because of American obsession with racial purity, white being the purest resulting in ridiculous one-drop rule. 

 

um what dead4dead4  I hope you don't say this in public dead4 

 

I think in the U.S, Beyonce will outshine Madonna. Not in sales, but in public approval and impact. Outside, probably not.

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15 minutes ago, Infrared said:

I said she is partly black because she's mixed, she is seen merely as black because of American obsession with racial purity, white being the purest resulting in ridiculous one-drop rule. 

 

um what dead4dead4  I hope you don't say this in public dead4 

The fact that Beyoncé or Obama are considered nothing but black is the proof of racism.

 

It's so ridiculous how everyone has to have a specific race as if all of our ancestors were from one specific region of the world. Obama's mother is white, why don't we call him mixed ? Because in America, skin color racism is so inherently accepted in the society that being white is seen as pure so if you're mixed, you become your non-white half. This logic is called one-drop rule, it's archaic and racist. The reason why Beyoncé and Obama are considered black is one-drop rule. 

Everytime you consider them nothing but Black, you endorse the one-drop rule. This approach to racial issues is the root of racial segregation. And that segregation is the foundation for racism. 

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2 minutes ago, CalixSpurius said:

The fact that Beyoncé or Obama are considered nothing but black is the proof of racism.

 

It's so ridiculous how everyone has to have a specific race as if all of our ancestors were from one specific region of the world. Obama's mother is white, why don't we call him mixed ? Because in America, skin color racism is so inherently accepted in the society that being white is seen as pure so if you're mixed, you become your non-white half. This logic is called one-drop rule, it's archaic and racist. The reason why Beyoncé and Obama are considered black is one-drop rule. 

Everytime you consider them nothing but Black, you endorse the one-drop rule. This approach to racial issues is the root of racial segregation. 

uh not really kylie2

 

Beyonce and Obama both identify as African American because that is the dominant gene and traits and both have lived an African American lifestyle. Mixed is pandering in some cases. If we boil it down, a majority of people are mixed in some way or the other.

 

Creole is a mix of African, Native American, and French and Tina Knowles herself is a Creole of Color. 

 

You're acting as if there is something shameful with identifying as black nat1  Should they identify as mixed to cater to a white society and white audience nat1 

I should tell my black friends we're racist because we consider Beyonce and Obama black icons nat1   @Kyoteki

People have taken the one-drop rule and actually done the opposite and have accepted there is pride in being black. Remember that rule was to exclude, not include. You keep talking about it from a white perspective but have you ever looked from a person of color's perspective nat1 

 

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34 minutes ago, Infrared said:

uh not really kylie2

 

Beyonce and Obama both identify as African American because that is the dominant gene and traits and both have lived an African American lifestyle. Mixed is pandering in some cases. If we boil it down, a majority of people are mixed in some way or the other.

 

Creole is a mix of African, Native American, and French and Tina Knowles herself is a Creole of Color. 

 

You're acting as if there is something shameful with identifying as black nat1  Should they identify as mixed to cater to a white society and white audience nat1 

I should tell my black friends we're racist because we consider Beyonce and Obama black icons nat1   @Kyoteki

People have taken the one-drop rule and actually done the opposite and have accepted there is pride in being black. Remember that rule was to exclude, not include. You keep talking about it from a white perspective but have you ever looked from a person of color's perspective nat1 

 

I highlighted those parts because they will be relevant to my point. 

 

1- I hate the term people of color. The term is endorsing ideas that serve as the foundation for American Racism. When you say people of color, you instigate the idea that "white" is the norm, and anything other than white is the "others". 

2- I don't know what you mean by African American lifestyle, they are people like us, I find it divisive to associate too much meaning to race. It's same as telling gay people should be a certain way. 

3- I do not say they should identify as mixed to cater to a white society, I am saying that they are not given a choice anyways. Take the example of Obama, he's half white, why would objectively he would consider himself just as black ? Simply because society demands it, and that demand itself is the root of racism. I am not saying that there is anything shameful with identifying as a black but the reasons they have to identify as black or they would be called nothing but black by society is racist. Why would Obama feel the need of identifying as black in spite of totally ignoring one side of his heritage ? Because he has to since society inherently applies the one-drop rule. 

4- I do not say that you're racist for considering Beyonce or Obama as black but the logic behind it is basically endorsing the one-drop rule which is a racist concept so inherently adopted by our society that people don't even notice. 

5- I do not think I look from a white perspective. My family is literally scattered across the globe. I have a French Jewish mom (actually born in France) and a Karamanlides (Turkish speaking Greek-Orthodox actually born in Greece) father. I believe my international background and foreign extended family allow me to take a step back and see the big picture of racism in the context of America from outside. Race is a naturalized concept which means that race is not a scientific reality yet we still keep categorizing people, even applying one-drop rule. That segregation is the foundation of racism. 

 

That was my point lana1

 

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1 hour ago, CalixSpurius said:
Spoiler

I said she is partly black because she's mixed, she is seen merely as black because of American obsession with racial purity, white being the purest resulting in ridiculous one-drop rule. Obama's mother is white too. 

 

no she's not . mixed with what ? Black and Black ??? 

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4 minutes ago, CalixSpurius said:

I highlighted those parts because they will be relevant to my point. 

 

1- I hate the term people of color. Again, you are endorsing ideas that serve the foundation for American Racism. When you say people of color, you instigate the idea that "white" is the norm, and anything other than white is the "others". 

2- I don't know what you mean by African American lifestyle, they are people like us, I find it divisive to associate too much meaning to race. It's same as telling gay people should be a certain way. 

3- I do not say they should identify as mixed to cater to a white society, I am saying that they are not given a choice anyways. Take the example of Obama, he's half white, why would objectively he would consider himself just as black ? Simply because society demands it, and that demand itself is the root of racism. I am not saying that there is anything shameful with identifying as a black but the reasons they have to identify as black or they would be called nothing but black by society is racist. Why would Obama feel the need of identifying as black in spite of totally ignoring one side of his heritage ? Because he has to since society inherently applies the one-drop rule. 

4- I do not say that you're racist for considering Beyonce or Obama as black but the logic behind it is basically endorsing the one-drop rule which is a racist concept so inherently adopted by our society that people don't even notice. 

5- I do not think I look from a white perspective. My ancestors were from all over the world. I have a French Jewish mom (actually born in France) and Karamanlides (Turkish speaking greek-orthodox actually born in Greece) father. I believe my background and foreign extended family allows me to take a step back and see the big picture of racism in the context of America. Race is a naturalized concept which means that race is not a scientific reality yet we still keep categorizing people, even applying one-drop rule. That segregation is the foundation of racism. 

 

That was my point lana1

 

5

I hate the term people of color. Again, you are endorsing ideas that serve the foundation for American Racism. When you say people of color, you instigate the idea that "white" is the norm, and anything other than white is the "others".

Each person views this differently. As an African American, I don't mind "person of color" because there is strength in being non-white and being a minority. Other African Americans simply like being called black. If we wan't to drill it down, it's of African diaspora. White is the normal and will always be the normal. But normal is boring and that's why minorities have been more prominent - because we offer something different than just an anglo-saxon European look.

and I say normal as in society has normalized it. Not because I enjoy it being normalized. 

 

I don't know what you mean by African American lifestyle, they are people like us, I find it divisive to associate too much meaning to race. It's same as telling gay people should be a certain way. 

Ugh this is a hard one to explain. African American culture is different - the way you talk, read, date. It's hard to describe because it's something you just do. Like when someone describes Black Twitter, it's an entirely different way of thinking.

I think you're confusing it was something derogatory.  An African American lifestyle is perpetuated by two sides. An African - American side, and a non African-American lifestyle. Think of it as a culture with an America.

 

3- I do not say they should identify as mixed to cater to a white society, I am saying that they are not given a choice anyways. Take the example of Obama, he's half white, why would objectively he would consider himself just as black ? Simply because society demands it, and that demand itself is the root of racism. I am not saying that there is anything shameful with identifying as a black but the reasons they have to identify as black or they would be called nothing but black by society is racist. Why would Obama feel the need of identifying as black in spite of totally ignoring one side of his heritage ? Because he has to since society inherently applies the one-drop rule. 

He doesn't feel the need to. He wants to because he's grown up as African American, has African American features, etc. He's not saying he's not, he's just saying he identifies with the African American community more. Choosing an identity doesn't necessarily mean ignoring it.

For example, I was born in Jamaica but I prominently identify as African American because I've spent more time in the U.S and have grown under American values and customs. More times than often I will identify as African American, but there are cases where I can identify as West Indian or Carribean. I just choose not to in most cases because it's further separated from identity.

 

4- I do not say that you're racist for considering Beyonce or Obama as black but the logic behind it is basically endorsing the one-drop rule which is a racist concept so inherently adopted by our society that people don't even notice. 

I mean sis it's either yes or no there is no in-between (in your concept). There are a group of African-Americans who says all whites are inherently racist because they have an upper advantage and adhere to a system that is centered towards white supremacy.

 

In America, it's a little more complicated. There are degrees of racism that are intentional and non-intentional. 

Picture

 

For example, look at the word Nigger. That word is rooted in racism and there are African Americans who advocate against using it. But then there are African Americans who advocate for its usage because it has transformed into something else. 

 

What I'm saying about the one-drop rule is that African-Americans and people of mixed heritage have openly embraced and shifted the perceptions of the one-drop rule. Where there was a desire to be white and shed you heritage, there is now a desire to fully embrace it. 

 

5- I do not think I look from a white perspective. My ancestors were from all over the world. I have a French Jewish mom (actually born in France) and Karamanlides (Turkish speaking greek-orthodox actually born in Greece) father. I believe my background and foreign extended family allows me to take a step back and see the big picture of racism in the context of America. Race is a naturalized concept which means that race is not a scientific reality yet we still keep categorizing people, even applying one-drop rule. That segregation is the foundation of racism. 

 

uh no it doesnt  rip1  In fact, you'd be considered white in America. and you'd probably get slapped by a person of color if you said that rip4  It comes off insanely privileged and naive.  There's a whole world you don't know about. Not because you're dumb, but because you're literally just unaware of what it truly means to be black in America. It's like why I explain why Beyonce losing the album of the year is much bigger than the Grammy's and all the European members just scoff and tell me I'm dumb.

 

But it's because they live in a countries where blacks are nowhere to be found - literally rip4 

 

You're lucky you're talking to me cause I know some SJW's would shut you down and clock you for filth upside down rip4 

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@CalixSpurius and there's nothing wrong with your perspective. You grew up differently and I value your opinion. So if anything I said upsets you, feel free to say so. Sometimes we won't agree because we're worlds apart in life experience but that's the point of being on a forum with members all over the world :) 

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9 minutes ago, Infrared said:

@CalixSpurius and there's nothing wrong with your perspective. You grew up differently and I value your opinion. So if anything I said upsets you, feel free to say so. Sometimes we won't agree because we're worlds apart in life experience but that's the point of being on a forum with members all over the world :) 

I enjoyed reading your posts a lot :) It offered me a different perspective :) 

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17 minutes ago, Infrared said:

@CalixSpurius and there's nothing wrong with your perspective. You grew up differently and I value your opinion. So if anything I said upsets you, feel free to say so. Sometimes we won't agree because we're worlds apart in life experience but that's the point of being on a forum with members all over the world :) 

For the record, I wasn't born here but I have been living in America for 7 years now, and I am considered white which I cannot really relate to because I feel like white is the term for North American Western Eurasian ethnicities who lost the touch with their origins except family recipes, I am the first generation American of my family.

PS: I actually speak English perfectly well, although I was drinking hence my inadequate grammar gaga6.

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@Infrared

Also, I think I am a mix of <Allyship> and <"Woke" justification> according to that scale giveup1. I think the resolution lies in believing that "There is only 1 race, and that's human race". I also think that "systematic racism is very real and needs to be ended" but to be honest I'm a Slytherin, I don't think I would put my "Health & Safety & Freedom on the line" for anything. dead7

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