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More legendary: I Will Always Love You vs My Heart Will Go On

More legendary   

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Which iconic song is more legendary

    • I Will Always Love You
    • My Heart Will Go On


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21 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

And the whole "when Celine dies" thing is such a ridiculous argumentlmfao2 Like, by that time Spotify may not even EXIST, some other service will overtake it or streaming will become obsolete and another platform will take over. Plus, even if it does, who's to say if Celine's death will have as much impact on her catalogue as Whitney's did on her's? Whitney was undeniably the more relevant public figure.

Either way, just stop trying to play fortune teller and focus on the facts we have now: IWALY is bigger in streaming, sales, and overall impact.

It's not a ridiculous argument when you're comparing a dead artist to a living one. It's a well known and documented fact that dead icons have a massive advantage on all platforms when it comes to these mediums and for you to just act like that's irrelevant to this topic is pure dodging. aretha1 It doesn't matter which service we'll be using when she's dead, it's going to be translated into sales and other figures either way. I'm not denying that IWALY is currently bigger in streaming, I'm just explaining why that perspective might drastically change and how ultimately that's an unfair measurement due to the artists' circumstances. I think I offered the most logical and non-biased answer : the former is bigger in the U.S, the latter is bigger in Europe. Had Celine sold the same amount of copies in the U.S she would have been millions ahead overall, by the way. Also, I asked a simple question, if Whitney hadn't died and her official channel uploaded a 2011 performance of IWALY do you think she would have received 110m views? kylie2 It's a perfect illustration of the dynamics, IMO.

19 hours ago, BEAUX said:

Opinions of people who chose to live under a rock do not count. if you don't know who whitney is then you probably just woke up from a coma, young af or sth! IWALY is literally inescapable, i hear it in literally every wedding/funeral, not to mention it is one of the heavily-covered songs in pop music's history,  the fuck? Whitney-whitney-houston-30753411-260-183

But to be honest, your argument makes sense, it is just the conclusion that is not that accurate, so i will kind of touch on many things you have mentioned and hopefully we can get a clearer picture..

MHWGO is more known in europe because celine sang in french and english so she has quite a diverse fanbase compared to whitney [since CD catered to different international demographics simultaneously, and she wasn't kept in a R&B box like WH], but this didn't affect whitney that much seeing how whitney's cultural impact was perfectly international, she wasn't your typical local singer, excuse you she arguably sold more albums with way less albums in her discography than Celine who has far more studio albums, both in english and french i might add, add that to the receipt @Bionic Monster provided stating how IWALY has bigger sales, streams and impact than MHWGO. 

 

It's not a matter of people living under a rock, it's just that, believe it or not, a lot of people could not give a single shit about Western culture (or are not directly affected by it) and are happy stanning football while being perfectly content with not knowing who Whitney Houston was and what she sang kylie2 The difference with Celine is that due to Titanic (the movie) infiltrating those social dynamics she managed to break it as well because she's directly associated with the film. It's the most popular film of all time, the most referenced, the most discussed. Even if you didn't watch it you probably know about it or even know what happens. And the song just comes with that package. I mean, Celine's effort is just more integrated in social consciousness, I was 13 when Whitney died and I remember listening to her catalogue and not instantly recognizing IWALY until the high note came on, assuming I probably heard it in some audition or commercial. By then I already knew the entire structure of MHWGO and the backstory of it, that's the difference.

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19 minutes ago, Jjang said:

It's not a ridiculous argument when you're comparing a dead artist to a living one. It's a well known and documented fact that dead icons have a massive advantage on all platforms when it comes to these mediums and for you to just act like that's irrelevant to this topic is pure dodging. aretha1 It doesn't matter which service we'll be using when she's dead, it's going to be translated into sales and other figures either way.

Whitney died more than half a decade ago? You can't use that excuse foreverlmfao2IWALY is doing better in streaming because it's a more remembered song.

24 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I I'm not denying that IWALY is currently bigger in streaming, I'm just explaining why that perspective might drastically change and how ultimately that's an unfair measurement due to the artists' circumstances.

Key word: MIGHT. We don't know because Celine isn't dead yet, and like I said, it will most likely not have as big of an impact because Whitney was and is the more relevant public figure.

 

26 minutes ago, Jjang said:

 I think I offered the most logical and non-biased answer : the former is bigger in the U.S, the latter is bigger in Europe. Had Celine sold the same amount of copies in the U.S she would have been millions ahead overall, by the way.

That's true, but IWALY was bigger in several non-European countries. Also, Europe is Celine's home continent and she was already established way back as a French artist. The US is the biggest music market in the world anyway, so who won?

 

You still haven't posted the source for that sales number you gave MHWGO btw. I'd really like to see it!

 

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3 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

Whitney died more than half a decade ago? You can't use that excuse foreverlmfao2IWALY is doing better in streaming because it's a more remembered song.

 

An artist's death affects his / her status forever, Prince died nearly 2 years ago and his catalogue is still hanging on iTunes (including in the U.S' top 50), same goes for David Bowie and his catalogue is still bigger on Spotify than it ever was. Dead icons lead the top of nearly all 70's/80's/90's Spotify playlists and are promoted more in that medium. The nostalgic value of an artist is just bigger than he's dead, are we too politically correct to admit that now?

3 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

Key word: MIGHT. We don't know because Celine isn't dead yet, and like I said, it will most likely not have as big of an impact because Whitney was and is the more relevant public figure.

She's a more relevant figure than Whitney was in 2011 aretha1 The most successful and notorious residency ever, performances that still get WW media coverage and albums that actually sell. You're talking about the 2nd most successful female artist of all time, not some obscure indie one, her death will make a massive impact. If Bowie's did, then hers will as well and she's arguably the bigger star.

3 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

That's true, but IWALY was bigger in several non-European countries. Also, Europe is Celine's home continent and she was already established way back as a French artist. The US is the biggest music market in the world anyway, so who won?

 

You still haven't posted the source for that sales number you gave MHWGO btw. I'd really like to see it!

 

The U.S is the biggest consuming market, that's true. But we're talking about the impression a song leaves on social consciousness and MHWGO is inarguably bigger in Europe, the home of 740m + people. Who won? I think that's pretty clear now. kylie2 

The number I got is from Wikipedia, I assume it combines streaming or something. Nevertheless, taking to account Whitney's death and how it gave her a boost in sales back in 2012 (are you going to deny that too?) the sales difference is too little for you to make a definite statement that IWALY is bigger, they're just about equal in the UK.

I mean, come on, "no one cares for MHWGO in 2017"? I prefer IWALY too but comments like that are annoying.

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4 hours ago, Jjang said:

 

It's not a matter of people living under a rock, it's just that, believe it or not, a lot of people could not give a single shit about Western culture (or are not directly affected by it) and are happy stanning football while being perfectly content with not knowing who Whitney Houston was and what she sang kylie2 The difference with Celine is that due to Titanic (the movie) infiltrating those social dynamics she managed to break it as well because she's directly associated with the film. It's the most popular film of all time, the most referenced, the most discussed. Even if you didn't watch it you probably know about it or even know what happens. And the song just comes with that package. I mean, Celine's effort is just more integrated in social consciousness, I was 13 when Whitney died and I remember listening to her catalogue and not instantly recognizing IWALY until the high note came on, assuming I probably heard it in some audition or commercial. By then I already knew the entire structure of MHWGO and the backstory of it, that's the difference.

I got you! but i'm afraid your unique personal experience can not be applied in that magnitude, i get what you are trying to convey, ofc Titanic is a classic and everyone knows it, sure, but 'the bodyguard' is also a cult classic, 'The bodyguard' IS the best selling movie soundtrack album of all time, OF ALL TIME, so we can't just ignore this solid fact, we can't, also it had better sales, impact, still getting streamed, covered heavily everywhere, and what not, the movie was a huge deal back then and it broke barriers for PoC in film, but the music itself is more popular, maybe you live/lived in a part of the world where celine, as an artist, is more celebrated than whitney, it is plausible; celine sang in two languages, is white, had no personal problems so her image is clean in the media, duh, but this doesn't mean IWALY/The bodyguard weren't huge deals. 

Yeah, most people recognize the high note part instantly, the structure of the song starts smoothly then gets higher as you progress, MHWGO has a unique first part, with the flute and shit, MHWGO sticks better (in the head), and most millennials know it because they know 'titanic' more than 'The bodyguard' but again, IWALY has more streams and sold more, gets covered more, so ... xtina7 

Yes, most ppl/The GP just don't care about pop culture or female artists or anything of the sort, their loss. They'd rather watch cristiano or messi kick some ball. ny9 

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14 hours ago, Jjang said:

An artist's death affects his / her status forever, Prince died nearly 2 years ago and his catalogue is still hanging on iTunes (including in the U.S' top 50), same goes for David Bowie and his catalogue is still bigger on Spotify than it ever was. Dead icons lead the top of nearly all 70's/80's/90's Spotify playlists and are promoted more in that medium. The nostalgic value of an artist is just bigger than he's dead, are we too politically correct to admit that now?

 

Purple Rain is at #82 rn. How many copies is do you really think he's selling in the current iTunes albums market?lmfao2 His death is PARTLY responsible for him charting at all, but it's also simply because Purple Rain is a true classic that is remembered fondly to this day. Any sales a dead artist happens to get can't all be reduced to the "nostalgic value."

 

14 hours ago, Jjang said:

 

She's a more relevant figure than Whitney was in 2011 aretha1 The most successful and notorious residency ever, performances that still get WW media coverage and albums that actually sell. You're talking about the 2nd most successful female artist of all time, not some obscure indie one, her death will make a massive impact. If Bowie's did, then hers will as well and she's arguably the bigger star.

 

They were both equally irrelevant, but before Whitney had about 15 solid years of being more relevant than her in the 80s and 90s, and even in the 2000s she was STILL more relevant in a cultural sense because of the tabloid stories. Celine is basically the P!nk of her generation, she sells massively but people don't really care about her that much. I'm not saying her death won't have a big effect, but it will definitely not be at the level of Whitney's. 

I'm really not trying to be mean about this cause I like Celine, but people were mourning Bowie a lot because he was a groundbreaking artist and a visionary. Celine is...not.

14 hours ago, Jjang said:

 

The U.S is the biggest consuming market, that's true. But we're talking about the impression a song leaves on social consciousness and MHWGO is inarguably bigger in Europe, the home of 740m + people. Who won? I think that's pretty clear now. kylie2 

The number I got is from Wikipedia, I assume it combines streaming or something. Nevertheless, taking to account Whitney's death and how it gave her a boost in sales back in 2012 (are you going to deny that too?) the sales difference is too little for you to make a definite statement that IWALY is bigger, they're just about equal in the UK.

I mean, come on, "no one cares for MHWGO in 2017"? I prefer IWALY too but comments like that are annoying.

MHWGO was bigger in Europe, but besides the US, IWALY was also bigger in Australia, Japan, Italy, New Zealand, and the UK. In fact, if we're talking about population, when you add up the populations of all the countries IWALY was bigger vs. all the countries MHWGO was bigger, for IWALY you get 605.1m while for MHWGO you get 201.4m. So, what I can conclude from this information is that MHWGO was bigger in several small European countries while IWALY was bigger in larger, more prominent nations like the US and Japan. Also, that IWALY was the bigger and more impactful song, then and now!

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21 hours ago, BEAUX said:

I got you! but i'm afraid your unique personal experience can not be applied in that magnitude, i get what you are trying to convey, ofc Titanic is a classic and everyone knows it, sure, but 'the bodyguard' is also a cult classic, 'The bodyguard' IS the best selling movie soundtrack album of all time, OF ALL TIME, so we can't just ignore this solid fact, we can't, also it had better sales, impact, still getting streamed, covered heavily everywhere, and what not, the movie was a huge deal back then and it broke barriers for PoC in film, but the music itself is more popular, maybe you live/lived in a part of the world where celine, as an artist, is more celebrated than whitney, it is plausible; celine sang in two languages, is white, had no personal problems so her image is clean in the media, duh, but this doesn't mean IWALY/The bodyguard weren't huge deals. 

Yeah, most people recognize the high note part instantly, the structure of the song starts smoothly then gets higher as you progress, MHWGO has a unique first part, with the flute and shit, MHWGO sticks better (in the head), and most millennials know it because they know 'titanic' more than 'The bodyguard' but again, IWALY has more streams and sold more, gets covered more, so ... xtina7 

Yes, most ppl/The GP just don't care about pop culture or female artists or anything of the sort, their loss. They'd rather watch cristiano or messi kick some ball. ny9 

I never denied The Bodyguard's status aretha1 It's one of my mom's fave movies and she made me watch it a million times when I was like 3 aretha1 I feel like that's much more of a personal experience than what I'm describing, which is the mere fact that Titanic managed to reach a yet still unprecedented level of recognition in the film industry, name one film that is more multi generational (meaning its' audience evenly ranges from kids to elders), more referenced in the media or more iconic. 'My Heart Will Go On' alone managed to shift over 30 million copies of the soundtrack, it's the only visible song in a soundtrack constructed of mere orchestral pieces, when does that happen exactly? brit12

7 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

Purple Rain is at #82 rn. How many copies is do you really think he's selling in the current iTunes albums market?lmfao2 His death is PARTLY responsible for him charting at all, but it's also simply because Purple Rain is a true classic that is remembered fondly to this day. Any sales a dead artist happens to get can't all be reduced to the "nostalgic value."

He was in the top 20 just a week ago, he died nearly 2 years ago and was not even in the top 1000 previous to his death. Didn't he sell 4 million records in the month of his death? Come on. carla1 That's not even including the Spotify boost.

7 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

They were both equally irrelevant, but before Whitney had about 15 solid years of being more relevant than her in the 80s and 90s, and even in the 2000s she was STILL more relevant in a cultural sense because of the tabloid stories. Celine is basically the P!nk of her generation, she sells massively but people don't really care about her that much. I'm not saying her death won't have a big effect, but it will definitely not be at the level of Whitney's. 

Again, the second best selling female artist of all time

Top 5 best selling Celine albums (excluding Titanic

Falling Into You - 30 million

Let's Talk About Love -30 million

All The Way - 21 million

The Colour of My Love - 17 million

These Are Special Times - 11 million

= 109 million

 

Whitney's top 5 best selling albums ;

Bodyguard : 40 million

Whitney Houston : 24 million

Whitney : 21 million

My Love Is Your Love : 12.5 million

 

I'm Your Baby Tonight : 11 million

= 108.5 million 

Not really more relevant, huh? brit0

Yes, she's not a self destructive drug addict that had a highly documented poisonous relationship but that doesn't mean people don't care about her : again, check her touring stats

7 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

I'm really not trying to be mean about this cause I like Celine, but people were mourning Bowie a lot because he was a groundbreaking artist and a visionary. Celine is...not.

She's considered to be an elite vocalist by the general public, she's celebrated for different reasons. Point is ; she is celebrated.

Look at her YouTube stats :

10 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits ; 13,476,130 views 

 

6 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits : 2,109,406 views

 

7 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits : 1,684,696 views 

 

2017 America's Got Talent audition by a 9 year old : 41,287,428 views 

 

Most teens thought Celine sang IWALY and that it's part of the Titanic soundtrack lmfao

 

 

Oh and by the way, this upload of the song is currently gaining a million views per day, which is x2 more than Whitney.

 

But no one cares for it in 2017, you're right. brit12

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7 hours ago, Bionic Monster said:

MHWGO was bigger in Europe, but besides the US, IWALY was also bigger in Australia, Japan, Italy, New Zealand, and the UK. In fact, if we're talking about population, when you add up the populations of all the countries IWALY was bigger vs. all the countries MHWGO was bigger, for IWALY you get 605.1m while for MHWGO you get 201.4m. So, what I can conclude from this information is that MHWGO was bigger in several small European countries while IWALY was bigger in larger, more prominent nations like the US and Japan. Also, that IWALY was the bigger and more impactful song, then and now!

And MHWGO is bigger in China + ME - which is nearly 2 billion people. (on ME's Spotify Celine has nearly 3 million followers while Whitney has 250k, btw) brit13 and cackling at France, Germany, Netherlands etc being small European countries. kylie2 They're equal in the UK and I still don't see how IWALY is bigger in Italy? It spent two weeks at #1 there while MHWGO spent ten. It's also bigger in Canada brit7 

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44 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I never denied The Bodyguard's status aretha1 It's one of my mom's fave movies and she made me watch it a million times when I was like 3 aretha1 I feel like that's much more of a personal experience than what I'm describing, which is the mere fact that Titanic managed to reach a yet still unprecedented level of recognition in the film industry, name one film that is more multi generational (meaning its' audience evenly ranges from kids to elders), more referenced in the media or more iconic. 'My Heart Will Go On' alone managed to shift over 30 million copies of the soundtrack, it's the only visible song in a soundtrack constructed of mere orchestral pieces, when does that happen exactly? brit12

He was in the top 20 just a week ago, he died nearly 2 years ago and was not even in the top 1000 previous to his death. Didn't he sell 4 million records in the month of his death? Come on. carla1 That's not even including the Spotify boost.

Again, the second best selling female artist of all time

Top 5 best selling Celine albums (excluding Titanic

Falling Into You - 30 million

Let's Talk About Love -30 million

All The Way - 21 million

The Colour of My Love - 17 million

These Are Special Times - 11 million

= 109 million

 

Whitney's top 5 best selling albums ;

Bodyguard : 40 million

Whitney Houston : 24 million

Whitney : 21 million

My Love Is Your Love : 12.5 million

 

I'm Your Baby Tonight : 11 million

= 108.5 million 

Not really more relevant, huh? brit0

Yes, she's not a self destructive drug addict that had a highly documented poisonous relationship but that doesn't mean people don't care about her : again, check her touring stats

She's considered to be an elite vocalist by the general public, she's celebrated for different reasons. Point is ; she is celebrated.

Look at her YouTube stats :

10 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits ; 13,476,130 views 

 

6 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits : 2,109,406 views

 

7 months old fan upload of her Greatest Hits : 1,684,696 views 

 

2017 America's Got Talent audition by a 9 year old : 41,287,428 views 

 

Most teens thought Celine sang IWALY and that it's part of the Titanic soundtrack lmfao

 

 

Oh and by the way, this upload of the song is currently gaining a million views per day, which is x2 more than Whitney.

 

But no one cares for it in 2017, you're right. brit12

People love to sing little kids sing big songs, no ones checking for Celine. And that videos first words are TITANIC THEME SONG, no one was searching for celine. Also all the comments are about the titanic, and none about Celine. Despite her global success her person is overshadowed by One song, and always will be. 

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