Why do American artists have easier time reaching global success?

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

Dead at how this turned into nazis and warnings  

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

7 hours ago, Devil Pray said:

I guess, I can think some Madonna wannabes in my country but we had a loooot better artists than them. The most successful artist of our country is Nana Mouskouri, it's said she has sold 250,000,000 records WW, if the number is real she's the 2nd best female artist

Yes, some put her at 300 million and she has released in over like 20 languages. Now that’s GLOBAL. 

[BreatheeOnKnee 480]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

Because it counts every review and does not weigh in on just MC scores. It also relies heavily on year end, decade end, all time etc lists which Mariah rarely is on.

Yes, an album like Butterfly (76) maybe has a higher score than Anti (71), but it might have gotten significantly less reviews. 

For example 

Butterfly :

Entertainment Weekly B-

Rolling Stone 60/100

Robert christgau - 20/100

Anti :

Entertainment Weekly A-

Rolling Stone 80/100

Robert Christgau 90/100

The truth is that Mariah is just significatly less reviewed than her peers, who knows, maybe it's because her music is just...less interesting.

 

Or...because most of Mariah's albums were released in a time before any person with an internet connection could be considered a "reviewer" 

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

6 minutes ago, ShutUpRae said:

Or...because most of Mariah's albums were released in a time before any person with an internet connection could be considered a "reviewer" 

Robert Christgau is bias too, hated R&B/Soul it seems his rankings offer no insight either, and obvious outlier in butterfly reviews. 

[Hylia 85,573]

Is @The One Below All the new @Raven

[light741 1,974]

55 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Because it counts every review and does not weigh in on just MC scores. It also relies heavily on year end, decade end, all time etc lists which Mariah rarely is on.

Yes, an album like Butterfly (76) maybe has a higher score than Anti (71), but it might have gotten significantly less reviews. 

For example 

Butterfly :

Entertainment Weekly B-

Rolling Stone 60/100

Robert christgau - 20/100

Anti :

Entertainment Weekly A-

Rolling Stone 80/100

Robert Christgau 90/100

The truth is that Mariah is just significatly less reviewed than her peers, who knows, maybe it's because her music is just...less interesting.

 

That website does not count every review for every album. Call me when rihanna has an album with a score like Daydream.

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

11 hours ago, ShutUpRae said:

Or...because most of Mariah's albums were released in a time before any person with an internet connection could be considered a "reviewer" 

Robert has been a critic since the 70's though  Stop making excuses, Rihanna's music is generally more critically approved. 

[light741 1,974]

Just now, Jjang said:

Robert has been a critic since the 70's though  Stop making excuses, Rihanna's music is generally more critically approved. 

Not true. Show me the proof of that site taking note from every review . I don't see her 90s albums reviews being taken into consideration for the most part.

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

10 hours ago, light741 said:

Not true. Show me the proof of that site taking note from every review . I don't see her 90s albums reviews being taken into consideration for the most part.

Acclaimed Music is a website created by Henrik Franzon, a statistician from Stockholm, Sweden in September, 2001. Franzon has statistically aggregated hundreds of published lists that rank songs and albums into aggregated rankings by year, decade and all-time Lists that are submitted by readers to magazines or websites are excluded from the aggregation. Author Michaelangelo Matos writes that "Franzon's methods are imperfect, but as indicators of overall critical appeal go, it's hard to beat."

Mariah is praised for her vocals, her music, for the most part, has been always regarded as luke warm and too sugary and conceptually bland to commend any serious attention brought to it, sure Mariah had her few shining moments but overall when you look at her musical landscape her craft was never the main focus of her acclaim but her vocal contributions were. She's your typical Pop vocalist that vaguely sings her love and faith songs of all sorts, nothing particulary wrong with that, in fact she probably set the blueprint for it, the world loved her for a decade and a bit. It was cute, but she's not this groundbreaking artist you're insisting for her to be.

Rihanna is no mozart either but her music has been progressively getting better and she's been experimenting with sonics and concepts more and more as she grows. No that doesn't mean Rihanna is more talented, no that doesn't mean Rihanna is the bigger legend (though she might become in the future), that just means that her music is regarded as "better" and "more creative" by critics, for fucks sake, deal with it and stop quoting me. 

[light741 1,974]

Just now, Jjang said:

Acclaimed Music is a website created by Henrik Franzon, a statistician from Stockholm, Sweden in September, 2001. Franzon has statistically aggregated hundreds of published lists that rank songs and albums into aggregated rankings by year, decade and all-time Lists that are submitted by readers to magazines or websites are excluded from the aggregation. Author Michaelangelo Matos writes that "Franzon's methods are imperfect, but as indicators of overall critical appeal go, it's hard to beat."

Mariah is praised for her vocals, her music, for the most part, has been always regarded as luke warm and too sugary and conceptually bland to commend any serious attention brought to it, sure Mariah had her few shining moments but overall when you look at her musical landscape her craft was never the main focus of her acclaim but her vocal contributions were. She's your typical Pop vocalist that vaguely sings her love and faith songs of all sorts, nothing particulary wrong with that, in fact she probably set the blueprint for it, the world loved her for a decade and a bit. It was cute, but she's not this groundbreaking artist you're insisting for her to be.

Rihanna is no mozart either but her music has been progressively getting better and she's been experimenting with sonics and concepts more and more as she grows. No that doesn't mean Rihanna is more talented, no that doesn't mean Rihanna is the bigger legend (though she might become in the future), that just means that her music is regarded as "better" and "more creative" by critics, for fucks sake, deal with it and stop quoting me. 

Butterfly and Daydream had better reviews than any rihanna album.

Mariah has experimented with sounds and concepts as well. And all you say about music being bland is all subjective. Singing is a form of art, and Mariah is part of the elite of singing. Faith and love only?. She sang about much more than that. Aretha is not a madonna type of artist. And lists about greatest artists always rank her higher than madonna, so what made you think that a vocalists  can't be groundbreaking?. 

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

12 hours ago, NicoleRichiePurpleHair.jpg said:

Ok sis, stay pressted that you got baited and trolled for 4 pages. No matter how smart anyone thinks they are, they always get trolled regardless. I knew I won as soon as you brang up me being predicatable, that had nothing to do with the topic, while I stayed on topic the entire conversation. You were mad, and you still are. A kii

Go off and knit pick the shows with the lowest attendance. 

Mariah is more global receipts and sales prove this, while iTunes chart positions of #200 and #96 do not prove some band is global. Let me pull some receipts of Mariah at #54 in some African countries, then that’ll really be a clock!

The highest chart positions are in European countries like I said, and the ones that aren’t #134 isn’t something to brag about. 

50 million sales of 40 songs or 15 million sales of one? Which is better. Not to mention the extreme inflation to reach 50 million, you Madge stans love to overinflate sales. A Madonna has sold over 400 million records kii

Oh know it’s grouped with some flops on a Spotify playlist a drag, I’m shaking. You could do much better hun

I've been ignoring you for quite a while if you haven't noticed, Poo. I only replied seriously this time around 'cause that's the way you've approached the argument and I obliged. 

She shouldn't have these stats to begin with, no excuses, she's a legend remember?

No, she's not, most of these acts are 70's based and we either have minimal to none Chart datas of these regions during these times. They are the best selling acts of all time with the best selling albums of all time, period. Posting current Apple Music and iTunes positions for nearly 50 year old albums is an achievement, absolutely, esp. when your precious global fave doesn't have 10% of their current global appeal.

The Immaculate Collection : 30 million copies.

GHV2 : 7 million copies.

Something To Remember :  10 million copies.

Celebration : 4 million copies (and 600m+ streams without the help of any Spotify playlist, but who's counting)

= 51 million.

How did Mariah's GH albums do in comparison to Madonna's?  I'm talking about full back catalogues, not just Christmas carols.

 

[light741 1,974]

Just now, Jjang said:

I've been ignoring you for quite a while if you haven't noticed, Poo. I only replied seriously this time around 'cause that's the way you've approached the argument and I obliged. 

She shouldn't have these stats to begin with, no excuses, she's a legend remember?

No, she's not, most of these acts are 70's based and we either have minimal to none Chart datas of these regions during these times. They are the best selling acts of all time with the best selling albums of all time, period. Posting current Apple Music and iTunes positions for nearly 50 year old albums is an achievement, absolutely, esp. when your precious global fave doesn't have 10% of their current global appeal.

The Immaculate Collection : 30 million copies.

GHV2 : 7 million copies.

Something To Remember :  10 million copies.

Celebration : 4 million copies (and 600m+ streams without the help of any Spotify playlist, but who's counting)

= 51 million.

How did Mariah's GH albums do in comparison to Madonna's?  I'm talking about full back catalogues, not just Christmas carols.

 

#1 is the 3rd biggest selling greatest hits album by a woman, with 16M. 

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

I've been ignoring you for quite a while if you haven't noticed, Poo. I only replied seriously this time around 'cause that's the way you've approached the argument and I obliged. 

She shouldn't have these stats to begin with, no excuses, she's a legend remember?

No, she's not, most of these acts are 70's based and we either have minimal to none Chart datas of these regions during these times. They are the best selling acts of all time with the best selling albums of all time, period. Posting current Apple Music and iTunes positions for nearly 50 year old albums is an achievement, absolutely, esp. when your precious global fave doesn't have 10% of their current global appeal.

The Immaculate Collection : 30 million copies.

GHV2 : 7 million copies.

Something To Remember :  10 million copies.

Celebration : 4 million copies (and 600m+ streams without the help of any Spotify playlist, but who's counting)

= 51 million.

How did Mariah's GH albums do in comparison to Madonna's?  I'm talking about full back catalogues, not just Christmas carols.

 

Good 4 you, you don’t have to reply to my threads, cause you know they’re obvious bait. Then I bait with this thread, and get defensive cause you got bamboozled. Suck it up, you’re not the first and won’t be the last. 

Again she is, just because you can’t find chart receipts isn’t my fault. She sold more and is more global, with RECEIPTS. 

#100 itune chart positions aren’t commendable, and never will be. 

Madonnas best selling album being a greatest hits is a testament to the mediocrity of her catalogue. Only her most radio friendly and GP friendly songs are remembered, while actual album masterpieces didn’t make the cut. 

15 million one single > 51 milllion for 40. 

Immaculate didn’t sell 30 million, just like music box didn’t sell 32 million, and Thriller didn’t sell 100 million. 

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

18 hours ago, NicoleRichiePurpleHair.jpg said:

Good 4 you, you don’t have to reply to my threads, cause you know they’re obvious bait. Then I bait with this thread, and get defensive cause you got bamboozled. Suck it up, you’re not the first and won’t be the last. 

Again she is, just because you can’t find chart receipts isn’t my fault. She sold more and is more global, with RECEIPTS. 

#100 itune chart positions aren’t commendable, and never will be. 

Madonnas best selling album being a greatest hits is a testament to the mediocrity of her catalogue. Only her most radio friendly and GP friendly songs are remembered, while actual album masterpieces didn’t make the cut. 

15 million one single > 51 milllion for 40. 

Immaculate didn’t sell 30 million, just like music box didn’t sell 32 million, and Thriller didn’t sell 100 million. 

I'm merely observing, not being emotional at all, this is easy. 

Let me hit you with my newly found receipts then 

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon :

U.S : 21.800.000

Europe : 13.500.000

Asia : 1.500.000

Brazil : 600.000

Argentina : 450.000

Australia : 1.100.000 (not counting New Zealand)

More global you said? They outsold her massively in the US/Europe/SA/Oceania here, while still maintaing massive sales in Asia as well.

They are when your 50 years old album is currently in the top 50 on the second biggest streaming service of all time in several highly populated regions. Mariah doesn't have that. 

I'm not even gonna reply to that 'cause that's pure trolling on your side, is that what you do in real life when someone confronts you? Just stand there and start gibbering nonsense? 

51 million for 40 > 14 million for 1. When discussing an artist's importance, people weigh in on his body of work, not his Christmas carols. People purchase Madonna's collection because they know her career is iconic as fuck, Mariah doesn't have that.

The Immaculate Collection had several releases, the actual album sold 28.2m copies and the video album that was released with another package sold 1.425m as of june 14, 2014. It's at 30m now considering it sells 100k in the US+UK alone on a yearly basis.

 

 

 

 

[Shego 36,847]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

The Immaculate Collection had several releases, the actual album sold 28.2m copies and the video album that was released with another package sold 1.425m as of june 14, 2014. It's at 30m now considering it sells 100k in the US+UK alone on a yearly basis.

 

100k is too much to say but it still does good

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

5 minutes ago, Devil Pray said:

100k is too much to say but it still does good

Combined sales of US / UK scratch 100k yearly.

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

11 hours ago, Jjang said:

I'm merely observing, not being emotional at all, this is easy. 

Let me hit you with my newly found receipts then 

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon :

U.S : 21.800.000

Europe : 13.500.000

Asia : 1.500.000

Brazil : 600.000

Argentina : 450.000

Australia : 1.100.000 (not counting New Zealand)

More global you said? They outsold her massively in the US/Europe/SA/Oceania here, while still maintaing massive sales in Asia as well.

They are when your 50 years old album is currently in the top 50 on the second biggest streaming service of all time in several highly populated regions. Mariah doesn't have that. 

I'm not even gonna reply to that 'cause that's pure trolling on your side, is that what you do in real life when someone confronts you? Just stand there and start gibbering nonsense? 

51 million for 40 > 14 million for 1. When discussing an artist's importance, people weigh in on his body of work, not his Christmas carols. People purchase Madonna's collection because they know her career is iconic as fuck, Mariah doesn't have that.

The Immaculate Collection had several releases, the actual album sold 28.2m copies and the video album that was released with another package sold 1.425m as of june 14, 2014. It's at 30m now considering it sells 100k in the US+UK alone on a yearly basis.

 

 

 

 

Ok sis, lie and deny

So half the sales in America and over a 3rd in Europe is global? A European and American centered artist, a local kii. Regardless that’s one album, Mariah remains superior globally. 

Idk how one album is comparable to a whole career but ok. They remain inferior in every market, except Europe.

Not trolling but kii. You can’t think of a response so it’s “trolling” now

15 million one single > 50 million of 40, that’s logic. And Dead at people buy madonnas catalogue because she’s iconic  GP are not forum and twitter stans they don’t care about someone being iconic. Then extra dead at Mariah not having an iconic career, you are one person speaking for billions please stop. 

Overinflated sales, as I said. Provide receipts with certifications at 30 million. Kii that it took her a rerelease to scratch 30 million, when Mariah did it twice with two different albums. 

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

15 hours ago, NicoleRichiePurpleHair.jpg said:

Ok sis, lie and deny

So half the sales in America and over a 3rd in Europe is global? A European and American centered artist, a local kii. Regardless that’s one album, Mariah remains superior globally. 

Idk how one album is comparable to a whole career but ok. They remain inferior in every market, except Europe.

Not trolling but kii. You can’t think of a response so it’s “trolling” now

15 million one single > 50 million of 40, that’s logic. And Dead at people buy madonnas catalogue because she’s iconic  GP are not forum and twitter stans they don’t care about someone being iconic. Then extra dead at Mariah not having an iconic career, you are one person speaking for billions please stop. 

Overinflated sales, as I said. Provide receipts with certifications at 30 million. Kii that it took her a rerelease to scratch 30 million, when Mariah did it twice with two different albums. 

They slay her in Europe / US / SA / Oceania why is that so hard to digest 

Of course it's trolling, The Beatles' best selling album is their Greatest Hits, does that make the most critically acclaimed band of all time, who have the most and the 2nd most critically acclaimed studio albums of all time mediocre?  And when you apply that logic to Mariah it's even more fatale 

15 million one single = 15 million dollars.

50 million of 40 = 500 million dollars. 

Logic 

The GP might not go "oh Madonna is iconic yass queen!" but they do recognize an important name when they see it and consequently buy her catalog to get more into her, and they don't need to wait for Christmas in order to do that! 

The non - visual album sold 28.2m and that is already millions more than any Mariah Carey record 

• - USA: 10.000.000 (D)
  - Canada: 850.000 (7xP)
  - Mexico: 850.000
  - Brazil: 850.000 (2xP) [+109.000 shipped since 2003]
  - Argentina: 200.000 (3xP)
  - Colombia: 80.000
  >> America: ~15.000.000
  
  - UK: 4.200.000 (12xP)
  - France: 1.128.700 (D)
  - Germany: 800.000 (3xG)
  - Italy: 575.000 
  - Austria: 60.000 (P)
  - Belgium: 150.000 (3xP)
  - Denmark: 50.000 (P)
  - Finland: 95.000 (P) [+92.500 Confirmed Sales]
  - Netherlands: 270.000 (3xP)
  - Spain: 350.000 (3xP)
  - Sweden: 150.000 (G)
  - Switzerland: 125.000 (P)
  >> Europe: ~9.160.000
  
  - Australia: 900.000 (12xP)
  - New Zeland: 115.000 (7xP)
  >> Oceania: ~1.015.000
  
  - Japan: 1.100.000 (4xP) [409.370 Oricon Sales] 
  - Singapore: 120.000 (8xP)
  >> Asia: ~2.500.000 
  
  - South Africa: 50.000 (P)

More than 25m based on known sales + cert based sales.

The video album additional sales :

• - USA: 450.000 (3xP)
  - Brazil: 85.000 (G)
  - Argentina: 20.000 (2xP)
  >> America: 620.000
   
• - UK: 300.000 (P)
  - Germany: 25.000 (G)
  - Italy: 30.000
  - Czech Republic: 5.000
  >> Europe: 450.000

 

An additional million sales based on cert alone... 

What's Mariah's second 30m selling album beside Music Box?  She was just lucky album sales were at an all time high in the 90's.

Also Madonna sold over 50m songs in the US while Mariah 37m 

Final : 

Europe - Madonna 

North America - Madonna

South America - Madonna

Oceania - Madonna 

Asia - Mariah 

Africa (and by that we really mean South Africa only) - Mariah, just taking your word here despite not having any valid receipts. 

Madonna - 4

Mariah - 2 

Sorry 

 

 

[WinnieIsFree 19,654]

32 minutes ago, Jjang said:

They slay her in Europe / US / SA / Oceania why is that so hard to digest 

Of course it's trolling, The Beatles' best selling album is their Greatest Hits, does that make the most critically acclaimed band of all time, who have the most and the 2nd most critically acclaimed studio albums of all time mediocre?  And when you apply that logic to Mariah it's even more fatale 

15 million one single = 15 million dollars.

50 million of 40 = 500 million dollars. 

Logic 

The GP might not go "oh Madonna is iconic yass queen!" but they do recognize an important name when they see it and consequently buy her catalog to get more into her, and they don't need to wait for Christmas in order to do that! 

The non - visual album sold 28.2m and that is already millions more than any Mariah Carey record 

• - USA: 10.000.000 (D)
  - Canada: 850.000 (7xP)
  - Mexico: 850.000
  - Brazil: 850.000 (2xP) [+109.000 shipped since 2003]
  - Argentina: 200.000 (3xP)
  - Colombia: 80.000
  >> America: ~15.000.000
  
  - UK: 4.200.000 (12xP)
  - France: 1.128.700 (D)
  - Germany: 800.000 (3xG)
  - Italy: 575.000 
  - Austria: 60.000 (P)
  - Belgium: 150.000 (3xP)
  - Denmark: 50.000 (P)
  - Finland: 95.000 (P) [+92.500 Confirmed Sales]
  - Netherlands: 270.000 (3xP)
  - Spain: 350.000 (3xP)
  - Sweden: 150.000 (G)
  - Switzerland: 125.000 (P)
  >> Europe: ~9.160.000
  
  - Australia: 900.000 (12xP)
  - New Zeland: 115.000 (7xP)
  >> Oceania: ~1.015.000
  
  - Japan: 1.100.000 (4xP) [409.370 Oricon Sales] 
  - Singapore: 120.000 (8xP)
  >> Asia: ~2.500.000 
  
  - South Africa: 50.000 (P)

More than 25m based on known sales + cert based sales.

The video album additional sales :

• - USA: 450.000 (3xP)
  - Brazil: 85.000 (G)
  - Argentina: 20.000 (2xP)
  >> America: 620.000
   
• - UK: 300.000 (P)
  - Germany: 25.000 (G)
  - Italy: 30.000
  - Czech Republic: 5.000
  >> Europe: 450.000

 

An additional million sales based on cert alone... 

What's Mariah's second 30m selling album beside Music Box?  She was just lucky album sales were at an all time high in the 90's.

 

 

They don’t though  She remains superior in Asia, US, and WW. One album doesn’t counter Mariah’s career and global legacy, pls stop. I could use the same receipt against many other artists. 

Stop clinging to critics and other people’s opinions and formulate your own, Beatles are overrated beyond belief and were a phenomenon, much like the Jackson 5 and Madonna that contributed to their success. They are obviously immensely influential. 

Kii at random switch from album sales, to total profit  obviously 500 million > 15 million if we were talking about money 

but we’re talking about sales, 15 million off one single > 50 million off 40

Imagine if it was 15 million off one album vs 50 million off 40 albums which is more impressive?

ok? You supported my claim that she need two releases to reach 30 million, and over 80% of original sales from Europe and America Local, and kii at Asia somehow being 2.5 million, when the receipt totals 1.3 million. Also 26 million = 30 million? I guess thrillers reported 50 million = 100 million too!

Same could apply to Madonna who was lucky album sales were at a high in 80s and 90s  don’t see how that matters. 

[WarrenThanksYouAll 15,920]

10 hours ago, NicoleRichiePurpleHair.jpg said:

They don’t though  She remains superior in Asia, US, and WW. One album doesn’t counter Mariah’s career and global legacy, pls stop. I could use the same receipt against many other artists. 

Stop clinging to critics and other people’s opinions and formulate your own, Beatles are overrated beyond belief and were a phenomenon, much like the Jackson 5 and Madonna that contributed to their success. They are obviously immensely influential. 

Kii at random switch from album sales, to total profit  obviously 500 million > 15 million if we were talking about money 

but we’re talking about sales, 15 million off one single > 50 million off 40

Imagine if it was 15 million off one album vs 50 million off 40 albums which is more impressive?

ok? You supported my claim that she need two releases to reach 30 million, and over 80% of original sales from Europe and America Local, and kii at Asia somehow being 2.5 million, when the receipt totals 1.3 million. Also 26 million = 30 million? I guess thrillers reported 50 million = 100 million too!

Same could apply to Madonna who was lucky album sales were at a high in 80s and 90s  don’t see how that matters. 

They sold 80 million albums in the US. Mariah 65m. Next.

And please, Pink Floyd's legacy is not even comparable to Mariah's, no competition. Call me when there are countless tribute acts for Mariah selling out arenas all over the world. She can't even do that herself, let alone a tribute act.

So what's your point, that Madonna was a phenomenon for 30 years? Greatest Hits aside, she still outsold Mariah, so if her catalog is mediocre is Mariah's shitty? 

Selling 50 million albums of your hit collections >>>> selling 15 million copies of one single. Especially when we're comparing an artist's legacy, are you sayign a Christmas carol is all there is to Mariah's legacy? You said it not me. 

She still outsold Mariah's biggest selling album with the original release anyway, that's the point. 

She's lucky when compared to Madonna because 90's album sales > 80's album sales. Madonna continued slaying her effortlessly ever since 1998 anyway so cheers to 2 decades of being overshadowed by Madonna 

Once again :

Europe - Madonna with x3 of Mariah's sales.

SA - Madonna with x3 of Mariah's sales.

US - Madonna (120m + records Vs. 102m records)

Oceania - Madonna with double the sales.

Asia - Mariah with x1.5 the sales.

Madonna wins. 

I can't find any South African sales but TIC sold 50k copies there, how muc did Mariah's best selling album do?