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Madonna

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16 hours ago, Jjang said:

Smh. 

I do think Bedtime Stories was a disappointing album after Erotica, but that's also the same year her infamous Letterman interview was aired, the same year she hosted that ultra gay album release party on MTV (you know, when she told her fans to shut the fuck up for interrupting her on TV), the same year she released Human Nature and the title track. There was nothing poised and calculated about her image, (like, let's say, repeating the same rehearsed lines 50 times an interview) despite the release of Something To Remember, which at least was done on her terms and sparked a new trend on the industry and not vice versa which is Gaga's case. And you could count on her to release her most experimental work of her career the year after (as if any other Pop star would go full on Kaballah mode on the industry and expect to be taken seriously) followed by a completely new show, she was still evolving and was still a factor of statements, artistic concepts and visions, which requires risks to be taken (you'd know since you saw how that turned against your own fave post 2011), she didn't run to encapsulate her career in a Vegas residency (again, back to having nothing to say).

I'm not even talking about wanting to redeem your relationship with the public, it's about the sacrifice you're willing to make and how you achieve that. 

There's nothing edgy or on-brand about Madonna being a cunt to her fans (she's done that her whole career) and saying the f-word on Letterman. That's the equivalent of Gaga getting puked on, shock value for shock value's sake. She even admitted to not really having any idea what she was doing during that era of her career in her interview with Matt Lauer while promoting American Life.dead2 Madonna's original thing was using sex appeal and feminism and basically being a boss ass bitch. She turned away from that several times in her career though, from trying to be a chill R&B balladeer in the mid 90s, to becoming a matronly English woman married to a homophobic filmmaker in the early 2000s. And present day, considering all she's seemingly given up on doing anything intelligent or thought-provoking at all and has reduced herself to Migos collabs. 

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48 minutes ago, Bionic Monster said:

There's nothing edgy or on-brand about Madonna being a cunt to her fans (she's done that her whole career) and saying the f-word on Letterman. That's the equivalent of Gaga getting puked on, shock value for shock value's sake. She even admitted to not really have any idea what she was doing during that era of her career in her interview with Matt Lauer while promoting American Life.dead2 Madonna's original thing was using sex appeal and feminism and basically being a boss ass bitch. She turned away from that several times in her career though, from trying to be a chill R&B balladeer in the mid 90s, to becoming a matronly English woman married to a homophobic filmmaker in the early 2000s. And now, considering all she's seemingly given up on doing anything intelligent or thought-provoking at all and has reduced herself to Migos collabs. 

clap2clap3clap2 

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On 10/16/2018 at 8:01 PM, Bionic Monster said:

There's nothing edgy or on-brand about Madonna being a cunt to her fans (she's done that her whole career) and saying the f-word on Letterman. 

Um... 

That was me replying to your disagreement with my statement about Madonna's characteristics remaining the same, more natural and not too poised and repetitive like Gaga's. But now (bolded quote) you clearly agree with the sentiment, so what is it? 

On 10/16/2018 at 8:01 PM, Bionic Monster said:

Madonna's original thing was using sex appeal and feminism and basically being a boss ass bitch. 

She never self proclaimed herself that way though, she only presented herself as a visionary that is willing to relentlessly evolve and that's pretty much how she operated for at least 70% of her career (that alone is like x3 Gaga's career in general, or any Pop star's, to put things in perspective). Bedtime Stories was the closest she was to displaying the "I'm totally concerned with the public's opinion" behavior that Gaga has been displaying for years now, minus the media stragety that Gaga follows. But at least in her case (and her backlash was way, way bigger than Gaga's) she still managed to partially redeem herself with some stunning and provocative visuals that held her momentum as a video artist and released Human Nature to save the era from being a total green project / an artistic defeat. Something Gaga doesn't have the balls to do anymore. Joanne was Gaga's opportunity to showcase that stripped down from all eccentricity she could be x100 more interesting than Madonna (by tackling an album like Ray of Light, or Like a Prayer which was supposed to be the inward looking and introspective album) and prove her personality and idealism to be the real deal / note worthy thing about her but she couldn't, either 'cause she's concerned with clashing opinions or 'cause she was always a basic girl that just followed what her old team told her to do and say. That project was just a bland uninspired mess, sorry.

Like I said, the Gaga that was "obsessively opposed to the typical", the one that self proclaimed herself as a "fame con artist", the one that argued vision and visuals are as important if not more than the music ,someone that is obessed with the day to day life analysis of Bowie's career, that strictly opposed getting plastic surgeries for aesthetic reasons, that would rather have the most innovative and conceptually interesting concert than "the biggest house", that wanted to propel Pop culture to the next stage and "launch the first revolution after Madonna in Pop music" is straight up dead. I could sit here and state all the things that she did or said that 100% contradicted her integrity as an artist and honesty with her fan base (like, for example, saying she doesn't release the music she loves most 'cause she's afraid it will flop in her 2014 Keynote interview). But who really wants to her that, you and the rest of her fan base?

She's done being the Pop outcast and wants play the mainstream Pop artist now, that's pretty much it. The more you realize that your fave is a dynamic and complex figure of a plethora of contradicting and paradoxical statements and actions which will eventually lead into people having complex points of view about her the more it would be easy for you to enjoy her work without all the noise that comes from someone like me or @Yzma or whatever. The fact that you turned this into this uncalled for (and false, lol, don't get things twisted, I could make this 100% about Madonna and why she has completely different career dynamics if you want) catty discussion just shows that you're not understanding of that. Because clearly what I'm saying is that, for once, despite all of *insert everything that I'm saying* I'm actually enjoying this project, take that and leave it.

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On 10/19/2018 at 1:50 PM, Jjang said:

The fact that Gaga fans and their supporters are back to bashing anyone who doesn’t allign with their “TABS!!!!!!” opinion is a perfect illustration of how insufferable they are, smh.  

lmfao2 the TABS is making some people sooo bitter, i LIVE lmfao2 these r the same ppl who would defend madonna taking a shit on her fans to their dying breath saying it’s trailblazing or some shit. truly the worst fan base. lmfao2 

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in the end, the only thing fossils can do now is accuse gaga of having no artistic integrity as if they have any right to say that with pedophiledonna writing child pornography in the name of “art” lol3 whew stay pressed and obsessed 

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15 minutes ago, Merryem said:

in the end, the only thing fossils can do now is accuse gaga of having no artistic integrity as if they have any right to say that with pedophiledonna writing child pornography in the name of “art” lol3 whew stay pressed and obsessed 

You went there... 

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On 10/16/2018 at 6:45 AM, HninSi said:

Madonna had to resort to RnB and AC to have half the relevancy of Whitney or Mariah. Why you vindicating much? I grew up during those years when she was certainly not cool.

Weird cause I know people who grew up during those years too and they have a completely different opinion. And I don't think Madonna had a problem with relevancy from 1983 - 2012.

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18 minutes ago, Merryem said:

in the end, the only thing fossils can do now is accuse gaga of having no artistic integrity as if they have any right to say that with pedophiledonna writing child pornography in the name of “art” lol3 whew stay pressed and obsessed 

People who create (at least) dumb words like TABS can't talk about "art" either.

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14 minutes ago, Merryem said:

in the end, the only thing fossils can do now is accuse gaga of having no artistic integrity as if they have any right to say that with pedophiledonna writing child pornography in the name of “art” lol3 whew stay pressed and obsessed 

honey. you should get a reality check cuz Madonna never performed or promoted pedophilia at any time during her huge lifetime. lol3

In the bestselling SEX book, she wrote about her sexual fantasies with a presumably 18-19 years old young man.rav1

There is nothing morally wrong in her book and we should all thank her for writing it, cuz it truly broke many barriers, hypocrisies and taboo.mad11

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3 hours ago, Merryem said:

lmfao2 the TABS is making some people sooo bitter, i LIVE lmfao2 these r the same ppl who would defend madonna taking a shit on her fans to their dying breath saying it’s trailblazing or some shit. truly the worst fan base. lmfao2 

And now of course you must lie to make your narrative sound less delusional. I critique 10’s Madonna just as I do with Gaga and it has been evident for years now. 

3 hours ago, Merryem said:

in the end, the only thing fossils can do now is accuse gaga of having no artistic integrity as if they have any right to say that with pedophiledonna writing child pornography in the name of “art” lol3 whew stay pressed and obsessed 

That was the main critique of Gaga for almost 4 years now, and it’s evident in tons of my threads / content. So no, I didn’t resort to this argument once Gaga hit the jack pot, I’ve been consistently making that argument for years now. It’s just that now you have the balls to (artificially) reply back due to her new gained commercial success, as if I give two shits. 

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2 hours ago, The One Beyond All said:

honey. you should get a reality check cuz Madonna never performed or promoted pedophilia at any time during her huge lifetime. lol3

 In the bestselling SEX book, she wrote about her sexual fantasies with a presumably 18-19 years old young man.rav1

 There is nothing morally wrong in her book and we should all thank her for writing it, cuz it truly broke many barriers, hypocrisies and taboo.mad11

sdksdk sure jan. a fantasy story about a boy with pubic hair that's just growing in and 0 experience...18-19? 

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1 minute ago, Jjang said:

And now of course you must lie to make your narrative sound less delusional. I critique 10’s Madonna just as I do with Gaga and it has been evident for years now. 

That was the main critique of Gaga for almost 4 years now, and it’s evident in tons of my threads. So no, I didn’t resort to this argument once Gaga hit the jack pot, I’ve been consistently making that arguing for years now. It’s just that now you have the balls to (artificially) reply back due to her new gained commercial success, as if I give two shits. 

Don't get it twisted, boy. If you think that gaga compromised whatever "artistic integrity" you assigned to her in your own little world, that's on you. Her initial, DEBUT album was focused on the analysis of fame, the construction of the pop star, etc, etc. She explored that theme thoroughly with that era and the resulting Monster EP. And then she moved on. She moved on to other projects, to other styles of music, to other mediums of visuals. Only she herself knows what her artistic intentions are, and to force upon her a notion of what you think her "artistic integrity" should be and then accuse her of compromising it is just pretentious and laughable, especially thinking you have ANY merit for telling others how she herself is compromising her own integriy because it's not following some vision of her that YOU built up in your own mind. She, just like any other person in the world, grew as a person and her subsequent music, visuals, and products changed - just because she said in an interview 5 years ago that she'd never be seen not in heels in public, does that mean you want her to be in heels everytime she goes outside until she dies? Do you want her entire life to be a case study on the manufactured pop star? Do you want "The Fame" to be a 14 year long era? 

She grew up, her fans grew up, we appreciate what she does and what she puts out. We take her as she is. Evidently that's impossible for Madonna fans to do, permanently enforcing their ideas of what an artist should be upon other people. 

The more you realize that your fave is a dynamic and complex figure of a plethora of contradicting and paradoxical statements and actions which will eventually lead into people having complex points of view about her the more it would be easy for you to enjoy her work without all the noise that comes from someone like me or @Yzma or whatever.

 

Funny you talk about dynamics when your argument's only legs rely on her being permanently static. Paradoxical statements lmfao...I haven't watched every Madonna or Katy interview but I'm guessing that they aren't the exact same person they were at their debut album. 

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57 minutes ago, Merryem said:

sdksdk sure jan. a fantasy story about a boy with pubic hair that's just growing in and 0 experience...18-19? 

tenor.gif?itemid=12206278

 

Don't forget that we are talking about a fictional character and as you know a good writer should always make the characters in some way special/different from the rest. You are right that puberty usually occurs before 15 years old, however boys can start puberty at a wide range of ages. There is no scientific/biologic law that prevents to develop pubes around 18-19 years old. For sure at 14 years old is quite common for many boys to don't have many pubes!!!

Well, you should know that in Austria and other countries the age of consent is 14 years old. On average in Europe the age of consent is 16. Well, I honestly don't think it is crazy at all to imagine a 16 years old with very few pubes and still virgin. Guess what? Some people have sex after 18 years old. Honestly, it is not that big of imagination stretch that she's asking to do to the reader. One thing is made clear in the book tho: the sex was consensual. 

You might argue than in the US the age of consent it is 18 years old, but Madonna did not wrote her book for US citizens only. 
This is a sex fiction novel meant also for European citizens in which Madonna explores many different situations with many different characters. One of them has the connotation to be a young man without sexual experience. Why should this situation been considered wrong or censured? She does not mention his age, so you are free to think that he is 14, but so I am to think that he is 18. Since the age it is not specified it is up to the intelligence of the reader.mad9

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10 minutes ago, The One Beyond All said:

Don't forget that we are talking about a fictional character and as you know a good writer should always make the characters in some way special/different from the rest. You are right that puberty usually occurs before 15 years old, however boys can start puberty at a wide range of ages. There is no scientific/biologic law that prevents to develop pubes around 18-19 years old. For sure at 14 years old is quite common for many boys to don't have many pubes!!!

 Well, you should know that in Austria and other countries the age of consent is 14 years old. On average in Europe the age of consent is 16. Well, I honestly don't think it is crazy at all to imagine a 16 years old with very few pubes and still virgin. Guess what? Some people have sex after 18 years old. Honestly, it is not that big of imagination stretch that she's asking to do to the reader. One thing is made clear in the book tho: the sex was consensual. 

 You might argue than in the US the age of consent it is 18 years old, but Madonna did not wrote her book for US citizens only. 
 This is a sex fiction novel meant also for European citizens in which Madonna explores many different situations with many different characters. One of them has the connotation to be a young man without sexual experience. Why should this situation been considered wrong or censured? She does not mention his age, so you are free to think that he is 14, but so I am to think that he is 18. Since the age it is not specified it is up to the intelligence of the reader.mad9

sure jan. if you think for even a second that her "getting off" to the fact that he had no pubes and was a "kid from the neighborhood that liked to watch her get dressed when he fought with his parents" and how she wrote about how innocent and in awe and naive he was was anything more than her describing child porn idk what 2 say 2 u

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14 minutes ago, Merryem said:

sure jan. if you think for even a second that her "getting off" to the fact that he had no pubes and was a "kid from the neighborhood that liked to watch her get dressed when he fought with his parents" and how she wrote about how innocent and in awe and naive he was was anything more than her describing child porn idk what 2 say 2 u

Only perverted minds would think about that but go off 

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