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BreatheeOnKnee

Is Madonna overrated?

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19 minutes ago, Jjang said:

First off, I don't understand how you can compare a mainstream Pop album to a Björk record and proceed to say it's trend hopping, can you not see the paradox? aura1

Madonna is an American artist with an international fan base, how is making a trippy Electronica record inspired by the sound of indie British EDM bands trend hopping? bey4 Bjork has a large following that have a very distinct taste, her sound was hardly accepted by the mainstream. It only reached gold in the UK (wasn't certified in Germany / Italy / Spain etc) and that's during peak album sales. You just... totally lied. dead7 It wasn't a huge sound.

Same for Impossible Princess, it tanked. dead2

That's like me saying Britney is following trends 'cause she made an album inspired LP1carla1

I don't get how Bjork is not considered mainstream, she was not nearly as big as Madonna but she was still going gold/platinum in parts of western europe. Just because Madonna managed to take it and outsell them both doesn't mean she didn't hop on that trend but ok, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. That's ONE era i listed from madonna that wasn't a total product of trend-hopping rather than re-invention. carla1

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15 minutes ago, ShutUpRae said:

I don't get how Bjork is not considered mainstream, she was not nearly as big as Madonna but she was still going gold/platinum in parts of western europe. Just because Madonna managed to take it and outsell them both doesn't mean she didn't hop on that trend but ok, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. That's ONE era i listed from madonna that wasn't a total product of trend-hopping rather than re-invention. carla1

A trend is something that infiltrates mainstream culture and directs it somewhere on a broad level, don't you dare tell me that Bjork's sound was the sound of the mainstream back then (or now). carla1 Nor is making an album inspired by a Kabbalistic belief system. R&B, Hip Hop and Teen Pop were dominating the late 90's, what a bigger contrast can one as for? dead2

 

Erm... Like A Prayercarla1 Eroticabrit12 American Lifeari9 Musicari6

 

But I mean, you think being certified Gold at the absolute peak of album sales is what qualifies as a trend... so I wonder what kind of indie-indie music do you listen to?

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she's probably the biggest pop star of all time based off of just sales, longevity n impact. so no she's not "overrated". alex1

however, the quality of her discography is very debatable though. each to their own, but the lack of quality in her music compared to her contemporaries from every decade is noticeable. hottie1 

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And how is Vogue trend hopping? ari9 Bringing underground culture to the mainstream forefront is the literal opposite process of trend hopping aura1

Also:

 

"The song is also noted for bringing house music into mainstream popular music, as well as for reviving disco music after a decade of its commercial death. Erick Henderson of Slant Magazine explained that the song "was instrumental in allowing disco revivalism to emerge, allowing the denigrated gay genre to soar once again within the context of house music, the genre disco became in its second life." Sal Cinquemani of the same publication wrote that the song was "making its impact all the more impressive (it would go on to inspire a glut of pop-house copycats) and begging the question: If disco died a decade earlier, what the fuck was this big, gay, fuscia drag-queen boa of a dance song sitting on top of the charts for a month for?"

 

 

 

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Just now, Jjang said:

And how is Vogue trend hopping? ari9 Bringing underground culture to the mainstream forefront is the literal exact process of trend hopping aura1

Also:

 

"The song is also noted for bringing house music into mainstream popular music, as well as for reviving disco music after a decade of its commercial death. Erick Henderson of Slant Magazine explained that the song "was instrumental in allowing disco revivalism to emerge, allowing the denigrated gay genre to soar once again within the context of house music, the genre disco became in its second life." Sal Cinquemani of the same publication wrote that the song was "making its impact all the more impressive (it would go on to inspire a glut of pop-house copycats) and begging the question: If disco died a decade earlier, what the fuck was this big, gay, fuscia drag-queen boa of a dance song sitting on top of the charts for a month for?"

 

 

 

tbh as a black lgbt+ person i wouldn't call that "trend hopping". i'd call that stealing black art and then profiting off of itdead7

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i've said this before and as sad as it is we'll hear a LOT more of her impact on pop culture once she's dead. i feel like as of late she's been kinda tarnishing her legacy to a point but there's not nearly enough damage done to deny her absolute impact on any other living pop star.

 

the OP sounds stupid.

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4 hours ago, ShutUpRae said:

I mean i don't doubt she's a legend but i think her legacy is a bit inflated by fans tbh tay2

I always hear stuff like "She's the biggest popstar ever" or "She's super inventive"  tay2

Maybe cause the GP, media and people like you try to degrade her impact and her music? Especially the last decade, where people (see @Umbreon's post above for example) are taking advantage of her age.

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1 hour ago, Jjang said:

A trend is something that infiltrates mainstream culture and directs it somewhere on a broad level, don't you dare tell me that Bjork's sound was the sound of the mainstream back then (or now). carla1 Nor is making an album inspired by a Kabbalistic belief system. R&B, Hip Hop and Teen Pop were dominating the late 90's, what a bigger contrast can one as for? dead2

 

Erm... Like A Prayercarla1 Eroticabrit12 American Lifeari9 Musicari6

 

But I mean, you think being certified Gold at the absolute peak of album sales is what qualifies as a trend... so I wonder what kind of indie-indie music do you listen to?

Notice keywords "I listed", so i'm not saying all her other albums were hopping on trends ari6 and voguing wasn't trend-hopping per say but really popularizing something that was underground. The problem is that people give her the credit like she invented it. 

 

1 hour ago, Gabe. said:

 i feel like as of late she's been kinda tarnishing her legacy to a point 

Because she's reached an age where her antics have gotten embarrassing rather than being consider "pushing the envelope". Mariah has done a lot of embarrassing shit lately but she's still respected because her career wasn't built on as much controversy like Madonna's. So the question still stands, is Madonna's legacy overrated? Is being controversial that special?

1 hour ago, Gabe. said:

 

the OP sounds stupid.

Yo momma 

 

23 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

Maybe cause the GP, media and people like you try to degrade her impact and her music? Especially the last decade, where people (see @Umbreon's post above for example) are taking advantage of her age.

I don't try to degrade her impact i just think we should be realistic. Are ya'll sure people are trying to degrade her impact or are they aware that some of her impact might be blown out of proportion? 

 

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ALSO forgot to question just how original some of these looks and ideas of madonna's are...she's pretty guilty of blatantly taking other peoples shit which

might be why the gp doesn't acknowledge her in certain ways. Her age may or may not play a role considering some younger pop stars today (Such as Beyonce, Ariana, Rihanna, Taylor etc.) do this as well but aren't as discredited because of it

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3 hours ago, sledgehammer said:

Absolutely.

 

She doesn't have a single classic on the same level as My Heart Will Go On, I Will Always Love you, All I Want for Christmas Is You, I Will Survive etc.

She brought nothing new to table. The entire sexual thing that she is credited for had already been done by million artists before her. 

Her performing skills are mediocre at best. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Her musical impact is basically non existent, it's all about visuals and marketing when it comes to her. For example, Janet and Rihanna are not the best singers, but many girls try to sound like them on their albums. No one tries to sound like Madonna. 

90% of her music is the same generic, basic dance pop with shallow lyrics. 

With Ray Of Light she popularised electronica at the '90s, that's musical impact. With Erotica she embraced female sexuality, she was one of the first artists to make a whole record focused in sex, pleasure, dangers of sex (AIDS) etc. Artists followed that 'formula' and made similar records, Janet was one of them since you mentiond her, that's musical impact. 

ari6

She also has many classics from 3 differene decades, the other four you mentioned haven't. ari6

1 minute ago, ShutUpRae said:

The problem is that people give her the credit like she invented it. 

No one says that, the opposite is happening, they keep screaming she didn't create it. They don't do it with MJ and moonwalk tho cause GP is fine with it. ari6

13 minutes ago, ShutUpRae said:

Because she's reached an age where her antics have gotten embarrassing rather than being consider "pushing the envelope". Mariah has done a lot of embarrassing shit lately but she's still respected because her career wasn't built on as much controversy like Madonna's. So the question still stands, is Madonna's legacy overrated? Is being controversial that special?

See? You did it too, you had to mention her age. You wouldn't have even say that if she was young.. ari6 Mariah Carey has actually make more 'inappropriate' appearances than Madonna the last few years.

3 minutes ago, ShutUpRae said:

I don't try to degrade her impact i just think we should be realistic. Are ya'll sure people are trying to degrade her impact or are they aware that some of her impact might be blown out of proportion? 

 

No, people nowadays hate on her cause she's 'old' while they don't even know what she has achieve. Everyone who thinks that Madonna became one of the most iconic figures in music history cause she was selling sex and copying others is just deluded. No hun, her good music helped her sell records, nothing else. I'm gonna say it again, no one bought her music cause they liked her tits, i don't know why you want to see/hear from an artist o buy his albums tho, maybe you want him/her to have nice ass, i don't...

Everything is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Madonna

ari6

 

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3 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

 

See? You did it too, you had to mention her age. You wouldn't have even say that if she was young.. ari6 Mariah Carey has actually make more 'inappropriate' appearances than Madonna the last few years.

No, people nowadays hate on her cause she's 'old' while they don't even know what she has achieve. Everyone who thinks that Madonna became one of the most iconic figures in music history cause she was selling sex and copying others is just deluded. No hun, her good music helped her sell records, nothing else. I'm gonna say it again, no one bought her music cause they liked her tits, i don't know why you want to see/hear from an artist o buy his albums tho, maybe you want him/her to have nice ass, i don't...

Everything is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Madonna

ari6

 

Honey, sex sells. Especially back then when it was shocking. To say it was ONLY her music that made her sell records is dishonest. Her album sales started drop because of Erotica but in the long run it helped her get her biggest tour at the time and had her name everywhere. She did copy some of her looks and styles, you can easily find examples where it's not even debatable. She is after all credited for helping create the standard for pop stars to be sexy and sell sex.

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1 hour ago, ShutUpRae said:

Honey, sex sells. Especially back then when it was shocking. To say it was ONLY her music that made her sell records is dishonest. Her album sales started drop because of Erotica but in the long run it helped her get her biggest tour at the time and had her name everywhere. She did copy some of her looks and styles, you can easily find examples where it's not even debatable. She is after all credited for helping create the standard for pop stars to be sexy and sell sex.

Being talked / selling records. Erotica was her least successful era for a long time. She was always a big touring force, that doesn't mean anything. 2 years before she was touring with Blond Ambition which is a tour that defined the 90's and shaped the modern pop shows, people already knew she was a good performer. Her most successful eras were the ones with no controversy, from her 2-3 first albums to Bedtime Story, Ray of Light, Music and Confessions on a Dance Floor.

 Let's not forget how everything that Madonna used to do was (and apparently still does eve1) considered desperate or provocative -antics as you said- but nowadays is considered artistic with GP and award shows supporting everyone who does it. Madonna talking about racism in Like a Prayer video = desperate, Beyonce talking about racism in Lemonade videos = 100 grammy nominations. Madonna wearing a bra in her 30s = old grandma, most pop girls are at their 30s now = no one drags them for what they wear. Madonna using religion in her music videos/ performances = blasphemy and desparation. Ariana's God is a woman video = 0 hate. I think she kinda helped the society to get used at these things, didn't she? She helped society to be more open minded. That's impact too, greater that her musical one.

 ari9

Also, i don't know why you keep mentioning that she followed trends. Sometimes she did, sometimes she didn't, that doesn't cancel her impact. That's what every successful artist has done, i don't know know why this is important. Reinventing and refreshing her image and sound =/= creating trends. 

ari9

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18 hours ago, ShutUpRae said:

ALSO forgot to question just how original some of these looks and ideas of madonna's are...she's pretty guilty of blatantly taking other peoples shit which

might be why the gp doesn't acknowledge her in certain ways. Her age may or may not play a role considering some younger pop stars today (Such as Beyonce, Ariana, Rihanna, Taylor etc.) do this as well but aren't as discredited because of it

021HOnQ.png

lt1Ia6l.jpg

dXB8TBL.jpg

 

 

 

Are you just gonna ignore the fact that she never once tried to pass these looks off as her own and went on record multiple times stating that she was aiming to recreate the iconic Marilyn moments because Marilyn was one of her idols? I mean for christ's sake, the entire Material Girl video was based on Gentlemen Prefer Blondes because it presented the exact anthesis of the song and she never tried to hide that fact, even including further references to Marilyn within that very video.

And while we're on the subject, the entire Vogue video and the photoshoot that was used for The Immaculate Collection features recreations of these iconic looks because these women are name dropped in the song. So once more she's openly citing the influence and where it came from, even saying so in the lyrics of the fucking song. 

It would be one thing if she claimed these as her own ideas, but she has never once shied away from acknowledging that Material Girl and Vogue's looks were very much inspired by Marilyn Monroe and Greta Garbo and Marlene Dietrich, etc. 

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