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WarrenThanksYouAll

Breaking myths: Mariah DID NOT popularize Rap features

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10 hours ago, Freaky Prince said:

@Jjang are you a "Britney stan" on atrl or did you steal the thread? brit15 

 

10 hours ago, Freaky Prince said:

Oh, points brit15

Oop. Try to tag @Fossildonna when i make another grammar mistake #FreakyPrinceCantRead

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31 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

Isn't this an oxymoron tho? lol2 The OP showed that not 1 or 2, but many artists did it before Mariah. It was something that was happening a lot before Mariah does it, hers just managed to chart cause she was at her peak. Big names in music were doing it before her song charts. How she popularized something that it was already happening by many artists? Are we sure they didn't credit her cause she just charted with it? lol2 Cause as i see many artists were doing it before Fantasy, many artists did it after Fantasy.

lol2

People dont cite the previous artists’ efforts but they cite Fantasy. That’s why lol2 Also, people having done something before doesnt mean it’s popular. It took off after Fantasy, not before iirc lol2 

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3 hours ago, Vesper said:

People dont cite the previous artists’ efforts but they cite Fantasy. That’s why lol2 Also, people having done something before doesnt mean it’s popular. It took off after Fantasy, not before iirc lol2 

Facts.

Facts are easy to comprehend, but hard to digest for some. clap3

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On 12/19/2019 at 6:04 PM, tomás said:

do you know what popularize means? none of the songs you posted were as big as the fantasy remix, some weren't even singles. and if you wanna go by that mariah was rapping on one of her songs before ALL of the songs you posted were released lmfao1. either way mariah popularized the mixture of pop + hip hop (therefore rap too) in a song. fantasy doesn't sound like any of the songs you posted because it's a blend of pop/r&b and hip hop. she revolutionized the sound. go back to watching the blonde ambition tour sweetie 

the way none of you fossil stans replied to this. y'all are sad lmfao1 

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12 hours ago, Vesper said:

The argument isnt that Mariah was the FIRST to do a remix. It’s that she POPULARIZED the mix between pop vocalist and hip/hop rap feature. The fact that other pop stars have done it and had no impact, then Mariah did it and changed the entire mainstream perception of rap features = lol2 . So your “receipts” are not “receipts” brit10 

Once again, the Fantasy remix was not a hit, let alone the "massive smash" her fans paint it to be. ari9 It was released more than 3 months apart from the original song (which had already spent 8 weeks at #1 from September 24 till November 18) And the remix wasn't released until literally a month from then. brit8 The remix (with the help of the original song) only stayed in the top 40 for 10 weeks. How is that bigger than any of the hits mentioned in this thread and consequently in the ATRL one? (Seriously, look it up, I'm too un-bothered to post 20 examples again). Let alone "a smash hit that changed the mainstream game and invented Hip-Pop" gag1

It sold 1.5m without the help of the remix and in total it sold 1.6m physical copies so only 0.1m came from the remix gag1

Mary did it and achieved success 

Janet did it and achieved success

Michael did it and achieved success

Whitney did it and achieved success

Brandy did it and achieved success 

And most importantly:

ODB did it before and achieved success 

 

gag1gag1

 

 

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12 hours ago, Vesper said:

People dont cite the previous artists’ efforts but they cite Fantasy. That’s why lol2 Also, people having done something before doesnt mean it’s popular. It took off after Fantasy, not before iirc lol2 

By 'popular' what do you mean? On charts or that is happening often by other artists? Cause that's what i'm saying. It was happening often by many artists as the OP shows before Mariah.

lana4 

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1 hour ago, Jjang said:

Except Mariah herself cited that she wanted to follow Mary's route, who was massive in the 90's and more influential than Mariah.

What Vesper said is true. Your thread is battleground worthy and that's it.

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3 hours ago, Jjang said:

Once again, the Fantasy remix was not a hit, let alone the "massive smash" her fans paint it to be. ari9 It was released more than 3 months apart from the original song (which had already spent 8 weeks at #1 from September 24 till November 18) And the remix wasn't released until literally a month from then. brit8 The remix (with the help of the original song) only stayed in the top 40 for 10 weeks. How is that bigger than any of the hits mentioned in this thread and consequently in the ATRL one? (Seriously, look it up, I'm too un-bothered to post 20 examples again). Let alone "a smash hit that changed the mainstream game and invented Hip-Pop" gag1

It sold 1.5m without the help of the remix and in total it sold 1.6m physical copies so only 0.1m came from the remix gag1

Mary did it and achieved success 

Janet did it and achieved success

Michael did it and achieved success

Whitney did it and achieved success

Brandy did it and achieved success 

And most importantly:

ODB did it before and achieved success 

 

gag1gag1

 

 

But most importantly: no one cited any of Those other “successes” as an influence. They all do cite Fantasy. So the fact that it had “limited success” yet had a huge impact in legacy only goes to show the power of the track brit10 Now show me receipts that show those examples you keep listing were cited by critics and artists as an influence on them regarding hip / hop pop remix rap features. Until you can provide those, your argument is NULL. brit10 

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1 hour ago, Régine Filange said:

cRiTIcs nEvER sAId ShE crEATed It

 

Meanwhile;

Her idea of pairing a female songbird with the leading male m.c.s of hip-hop changed R.&B. and, eventually, all of pop

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/04/03/on-top

lol3

I actually looked through the list of songs in the OP and am laughing at how tragic these “receipts” are lol3 

1. not a single track paired the It-Pop Vocalist of the moment with a squeaky clean image with a “leading MC” rapper of the moment with the complete opposite appeal. lol3 
2. many of those tracks weren’t even singles let alone hits lol3 

3.   Mariah was the first to popularize this because it was NOT popular before she did it, as evidenced by the lack of #1 singles by pop vocalists which featured a rapper like on Fantasy. Those receipts posted were not in the same vein as Fantasy in terms of mainstream recognition and success, let alone legacy. lol3

 

I’m really not sure why you guys don’t get it lol3 

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9 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I actually looked through the list of songs in the OP and am laughing at how tragic these “receipts” are lol3 

1. not a single track paired the It-Pop Vocalist of the moment with a squeaky clean image with a “leading MC” rapper of the moment with the complete opposite appeal. lol3 
2. many of those tracks weren’t even singles let alone hits lol3 

3.   Mariah was the first to popularize this because it was NOT popular before she did it, as evidenced by the lack of #1 singles by pop vocalists which featured a rapper like on Fantasy. Those receipts posted were not in the same vein as Fantasy in terms of mainstream recognition and success, let alone legacy. lol3

 

I’m really not sure why you guys don’t get it lol3 

Sis i asked you yesterday too. What do you mean by 'popular'? On charts or in how artists are doing this kind of collab? Let's say commercially or 'artistically'? lol3 Cause if its artistically, many artists were doing that already, even if they weren't successful on charts or idk.

lol3 

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3 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

Sis i asked you yesterday too. What do you mean by 'popular'? On charts or in how artists are doing this kind of collab? Let's say commercially or 'artistically'? lol3 Cause if its artistically, many artists were doing that already, even if they weren't successful on charts or idk.

lol3 

 Sis no, not many artists were doing that already. You have a handful of tracks that werent singles or successful in mainstream pop radio, out of the hundreds of tracks that were actually on the top 40. They had a rap feature but It was factually not the popular thing for a top female vocalist to do, and none of those tracks or artists made it popular commercially. Fantasy was the first real hit single that popularized pop vocalist + dirty rap feature in the mainstream and in the minds of millions. Hence the legacy and the constant reference. lol3 

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On 12/19/2019 at 1:27 PM, I Brings That Levity said:

Again i'll repeat no one is saying it was the first "pop" song to feature a rapper, however it is noted for popularising that genre. Mariah wasn't following any trend as the trend didn't exist at the time, it wasn't the trendy thing to do.

3 hours ago, Vesper said:

I actually looked through the list of songs in the OP and am laughing at how tragic these “receipts” are lol3 

1. not a single track paired the It-Pop Vocalist of the moment with a squeaky clean image with a “leading MC” rapper of the moment with the complete opposite appeal. lol3 

I think these are the key things to note here.

 

Obviously there were artists collaborating with rappers in the late 80s/early 90s, and maybe they were chart successes, but they apparently hadn't made any sort of impact. Mariah putting ODB on "Fantasy" was a huge deal at the time – not because the Remix was a chart-topping smash – but because it was sort of a sensation. Mariah got asked about it constantly at the time. People were surprised to see Mariah – who had just come off her squeaky-clean, proper-pop Music Box and Merry Christmas eras – paired with a hardcore rapper of ODB's "Wu-Tang Clan" caliber. The "genre" she is noted as popularizing isn't really just pop-rap features; it is putting this relativity safe, universal, family-friendly pop star with a rapper whose music reputation was already established as opposite of that. Fantasy Remix wasn't the first, but it also wasn't the last for Mariah. Even if it wasn't as commercially popular as you suggest, Mariah kept following this formula for herself throughout the rest of the 90s, and she did have a smash hit in 1999 with Heartbreaker featuring Jay-Z. (which, although it isn't often cited as being influential like Fantasy-ODB is, most of these pop-princess/hard-rapper collabs didn't really start coming in droves until after 2000 when all of those girl-next-doors were pushing for more "adult" images)

 

WBK that other people did it (and, although Mariah isn't white, other white artists did it before her as well), but that doesn't mean it isn't influential in its own manner.

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2 hours ago, LittleDudeNT5 said:

I think these are the key things to note here.

 

Obviously there were artists collaborating with rappers in the late 80s/early 90s, and maybe they were chart successes, but they apparently hadn't made any sort of impact. Mariah putting ODB on "Fantasy" was a huge deal at the time – not because the Remix was a chart-topping smash – but because it was sort of a sensation. Mariah got asked about it constantly at the time. People were surprised to see Mariah – who had just come off her squeaky-clean, proper-pop Music Box and Merry Christmas eras – paired with a hardcore rapper of ODB's "Wu-Tang Clan" caliber. The "genre" she is noted as popularizing isn't really just pop-rap features; it is putting this relativity safe, universal, family-friendly pop star with a rapper whose music reputation was already established as opposite of that. Fantasy Remix wasn't the first, but it also wasn't the last for Mariah. Even if it wasn't as commercially popular as you suggest, Mariah kept following this formula for herself throughout the rest of the 90s, and she did have a smash hit in 1999 with Heartbreaker featuring Jay-Z. (which, although it isn't often cited as being influential like Fantasy-ODB is, most of these pop-princess/hard-rapper collabs didn't really start coming in droves until after 2000 when all of those girl-next-doors were pushing for more "adult" images)

 

WBK that other people did it (and, although Mariah isn't white, other white artists did it before her as well), but that doesn't mean it isn't influential in its own manner.

Well said lol3 

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20 hours ago, sweetener said:

Mariah stans are so annoying and think that she "invented" everything. In reality, she's just a flop that has to now rely on a Christmas song to make her name every year. 

Ok brit9 

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