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Breaking myths: Mariah DID NOT popularize Rap features

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Jjang 14,499

Her fans love to brag about how big and influential and risky that Fantasy remix was (which flopped, by the way) when in reality that was already an established trend - her fans only view it as a risk because prior to that moment her career has been the safest Pop girl career of all time. A lot of the things her fans credit her for was mostly the doings of Mary J Blige. A sad re-writing of history.

Artists who did it before her: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merry Christmas dahhhlings! gag1 @Winnie. @HninSi @Madonna

 

 

 

 

 

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Yawn... Go stream Madame X or something.

 

No one is saying Mariah started it, but she undoubtedly was a huge part in making it mainstream and Fantasy was one of the first examples that became a huge smash hit (those songs you linked were either smaller hits or hidden album cuts. Also as a little FYI Mariah raps in one of her songs on her debut album. 

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Jjang 14,499
24 minutes ago, I Brings That Levity said:

Yawn... Go stream Madame X or something.

 

No one is saying Mariah started it, but she undoubtedly was a huge part in making it mainstream and Fantasy was one of the first examples that became a huge smash hit (those songs you linked were either smaller hits or hidden album cuts. Also as a little FYI Mariah raps in one of her songs on her debut album. 

The remix itself wasn’t that big, though. And the last song in the OP (which features ODB too) was certified Gold (500.000) the year it came out. 
 

Janet also has ‘Alright’. MJ has Jam... the list goes on. 
 

So? There are hit songs with rap features from 1984 and Madonna ‘rapped’ in Vogue before Mariah released anything. 
 

Mariah was following the footsteps of Mary and she followed trends, get real! 

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19 minutes ago, Jjang said:

The remix itself wasn’t that big, though. And the last song in the OP (which features ODB too) was certified Gold (500.000) the year it came out. 
 

Janet also has ‘Alright’. MJ has Jam... the list goes on. 
 

So? There are hit songs with rap features from 1984 and Madonna ‘rapped’ in Vogue before Mariah released anything. 
 

Mariah was following the footsteps of Mary and she followed trends, get real! 

Actually the remix was a huge contributor to the song. Mariah has herself said that a huge part in the songs success was from people requesting the remix version on radio.

Again i'll repeat no one is saying it was the first "pop" song to feature a rapper, however it is noted for popularising that genre. Mariah wasn't following any trend as the trend didn't exist at the time, it wasn't the trendy thing to do. Also i wouldn't regard what Madonna done in Vogue as rapping, but i don't really care anyway - i only mentioned Mariah's debut album for trivia, albeit the song in question was written and recorded prior to the release of Vogue, but again that's irrelevant. 

 

Honestly Mariah vs Madonna threads are boring, they were boring in 2018, they're boring in 2019 and they need to stop in 2020. It's so pointless. 

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Jjang 14,499
13 minutes ago, I Brings That Levity said:

Actually the remix was a huge contributor to the song. Mariah has herself said that a huge part in the songs success was from people requesting the remix version on radio.

Again i'll repeat no one is saying it was the first "pop" song to feature a rapper, however it is noted for popularising that genre. Mariah wasn't following any trend as the trend didn't exist at the time, it wasn't the trendy thing to do. Also i wouldn't regard what Madonna done in Vogue as rapping, but i don't really care anyway - i only mentioned Mariah's debut album for trivia, albeit the song in question was written and recorded prior to the release of Vogue, but again that's irrelevant. 

 

Honestly Mariah vs Madonna threads are boring, they were boring in 2018, they're boring in 2019 and they need to stop in 2020. It's so pointless. 

Receipts of the remix being a huge smash hit?

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Vesper 4,991
8 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Receipts of the remix being a huge smash hit?

In the mid-1990's Ms. Carey pioneered a subgenre that some people call the thug-love duet. Nowadays clean-cut pop stars are expected to collaborate with roughneck rappers, but when Ms. Carey teamed up with Ol' Dirty Bastard, of the Wu-Tang Clan, for the 1995 hit "Fantasy (Remix)," it was a surprise, and a smash.[41]

—Kelefa Sanneh of The New York Timescommenting on the influence and impact of the song's remix

"Fantasy" exemplified how a music sample could be transformed "into a fully realized pop masterpiece".[42]Due to the success and influence of the song, Carey is credited for introducing R&B and hip hop collaboration into mainstream pop culture, and for popularizing rap as a featuring act through her post-1995 songs.[43] Sasha Frere-Jones, editor of The New Yorker commented in referencing to the song's remix, "It became standard for R&B/hip-hop stars like Missy Elliott and Beyoncé, to combine melodies with rapped verses. And young white pop stars—including Britney Spears'N Sync, and Christina Aguilera—have spent much of the past ten years making pop music that is unmistakably R&B."[43]Moreover, Jones concludes that "Her idea of pairing a female songbird with the leading male MCs of hip-hop changed R&B and, eventually, all of pop. Although now anyone is free to use this idea, the success of "Mimi" [ref. to The Emancipation of Mimi, her tenth studio album released almost a decade after Fantasy] suggests that it still belongs to Carey."[43]

John Norris of MTV News has stated that the remix was "responsible for, I would argue, an entire wave of music that we've seen since and that is the R&B-hip-hop collaboration. You could argue that the 'Fantasy' remix was the single most important recording that she's ever made." Norris echoed the sentiments of TLC's Lisa Lopes, who told MTV that it's because of Mariah that we have "Hip-Pop."[44] Judnick Mayard, writer of TheFader, wrote that in regarding of R&B and hip hop collaboration, "The champion of this movement is Mariah Carey."[1] Mayard also expressed that "To this day ODB and Mariah may still be the best and most random hip hop collaboration of all time", citing that due to the record "Fantasy," "R&B and Hip Hop were the best of step siblings."[1]

 

brit10 

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Jjang 14,499
4 minutes ago, Vesper said:
In the mid-1990's Ms. Carey pioneered a subgenre that some people call the thug-love duet. Nowadays clean-cut pop stars are expected to collaborate with roughneck rappers, but when Ms. Carey teamed up with Ol' Dirty Bastard, of the Wu-Tang Clan, for the 1995 hit "Fantasy (Remix)," it was a surprise, and a smash.[41]

—Kelefa Sanneh of The New York Timescommenting on the influence and impact of the song's remix

"Fantasy" exemplified how a music sample could be transformed "into a fully realized pop masterpiece".[42]Due to the success and influence of the song, Carey is credited for introducing R&B and hip hop collaboration into mainstream pop culture, and for popularizing rap as a featuring act through her post-1995 songs.[43] Sasha Frere-Jones, editor of The New Yorker commented in referencing to the song's remix, "It became standard for R&B/hip-hop stars like Missy Elliott and Beyoncé, to combine melodies with rapped verses. And young white pop stars—including Britney Spears'N Sync, and Christina Aguilera—have spent much of the past ten years making pop music that is unmistakably R&B."[43]Moreover, Jones concludes that "Her idea of pairing a female songbird with the leading male MCs of hip-hop changed R&B and, eventually, all of pop. Although now anyone is free to use this idea, the success of "Mimi" [ref. to The Emancipation of Mimi, her tenth studio album released almost a decade after Fantasy] suggests that it still belongs to Carey."[43]

John Norris of MTV News has stated that the remix was "responsible for, I would argue, an entire wave of music that we've seen since and that is the R&B-hip-hop collaboration. You could argue that the 'Fantasy' remix was the single most important recording that she's ever made." Norris echoed the sentiments of TLC's Lisa Lopes, who told MTV that it's because of Mariah that we have "Hip-Pop."[44] Judnick Mayard, writer of TheFader, wrote that in regarding of R&B and hip hop collaboration, "The champion of this movement is Mariah Carey."[1] Mayard also expressed that "To this day ODB and Mariah may still be the best and most random hip hop collaboration of all time", citing that due to the record "Fantasy," "R&B and Hip Hop were the best of step siblings."[1]

 

brit10 

Receipts argue otherwise - this is an overblown sensationalist fallacy. 

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6 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Receipts argue otherwise - this is an overblown sensationalist fallacy. 

Yawn. Go listen to the iconic album that is Ray Of Light rather than making pointless threads no one asked for about two legends.

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Vesper 4,991
30 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Receipts argue otherwise - this is an overblown sensationalist fallacy. 

What receipts?

 

mariah claimed that the remix accounted for almost half of all Fantasy sales i believe?

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Jjang 14,499
15 minutes ago, Vesper said:

What receipts?

 

mariah claimed that the remix accounted for almost half of all Fantasy sales i believe?

Claimed? Smh

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Vesper 4,991
38 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Claimed? Smh

I still dont see any receipts that support your claim that the thug-love remix format was popularized in pop culture before Mariah’s Fantasy remix, so.... brit10 

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tomás 22,462

do you know what popularize means? none of the songs you posted were as big as the fantasy remix, some weren't even singles. and if you wanna go by that mariah was rapping on one of her songs before ALL of the songs you posted were released lmfao1. either way mariah popularized the mixture of pop + hip hop (therefore rap too) in a song. fantasy doesn't sound like any of the songs you posted because it's a blend of pop/r&b and hip hop. she revolutionized the sound. go back to watching the blonde ambition tour sweetie 

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It was definitely a thing before Fantasy, but mariah undoubtedly HELPED popularize it. She didn't do it single-handedly just like Madonna didn't single-handedly start the sexual revolution in pop music.

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11 hours ago, Jjang said:

Her fans love to brag about how big and influential and risky that Fantasy remix was (which flopped, by the way) when in reality that was already an established trend - her fans only view it as a risk because prior to that moment her career has been the safest Pop girl career of all time. A lot of the things her fans credit her for was mostly the doings of Mary J Blige. A sad re-writing of history.

Artists who did it before her: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merry Christmas dahhhlings! gag1 @Winnie. @HninSi @Madonna

 

 

 

 

 

This carbon copy of the ATRL thread made earlier, you gotta try harder babe rip4 

Anyway, she did popularize urban artists collabing with pop artists. No one said she created it, as that wouldnt make sense...anyway!

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Madonna 41,953

Mariah didn't popularize anything, because otherwise, her singles (and the remixes) wouldn't have flopped outside the US. gag1 

Janet, Madonna, Prince and MJ were definitely the pioneers in that field (as they were in almost everything). The raps didn't necessarily help the songs do any better on the charts.

She didn't popularize it, periodT! Moo stans gotta stop being so fucking delusional.

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I think Mariah, along with the other Artists you mentioned, helped rap to be more mainstream. However, Rap was getting relevant around the mid-'80s and after

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Jjang 14,499
On 12/19/2019 at 10:23 PM, Vesper said:

I still dont see any receipts that support your claim that the thug-love remix format was popularized in pop culture before Mariah’s Fantasy remix, so.... brit10 

Mary, Brandy, Janet, Michael, Whitney, Madonna, Prince and many others etc all have done it prior to Mariah, she wasn't even the first person to have a hit ODB feature. How are these not counter receipts? And yes for the millionth time some of these were hits as well. We're not talking about indie artists here, we're talking about the queen of mainstream Hip Hop - R&B (Mary), the Queen of Pop (Madonna), The King of Pop (MJ), The king of R&B & Funk (Prince) and the Queen of vocals (Whitney) all having done it prior to Fantasy remix which was a moderate hit at best.brit15 To even dare suggest that it's responsible for Bey or whoever featuring rappers today is comedic. 

18 hours ago, Winnie. said:

This carbon copy of the ATRL thread made earlier, you gotta try harder babe rip4

Anyway, she did popularize urban artists collabing with pop artists. No one said she created it, as that wouldnt make sense...anyway!

Actually my thread was made 2 hours prior to that one, so look at me achieving what you never achieved: impact! Like stans like faves!

Anyway, wrong. SUFFER! gag1

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