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ICEQueen

Bedtime Stories or Joanne

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Both albums came right after a controversial Era

Which one did a better Job at Damage Control and getting things back on track?

 

P.S.  I'm aware that "Artpop" has nothing on the "Erotica" Era in terms of controversy. 

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This is a weird comparison. I get what you're going for, but I don't think they really are on equal grounds.

 

Bedtime Stories is just a better album. I also think it revived Madonna's career chart-wise. Secret and Take A Bow were both huge successes. I think the media still wasn't treating her right (she was "behaving" a bit better, but was still being controversial, ala the Letterman appearance). But, it seemed like the GP were still onboard with her.

 

The more I think about it I guess I can kind of see the relation between BS and Joanne. Joanne has Perfect Illusion and Million Reasons, which were not as big as Secret or Take A Bow, but Joanne seemed to keep Lady Gaga in the sights of the GP, in a very shallow (ha) sort of way. It was kind of the same way with Madge during that time, I'd guess. People were still consuming her music, she just wasn't particularly popular as an act.

 

I don't think Gaga has pulled herself out of that slump yet, though. ASIB obviously was a huge hit but… idk, it just didn't seem to actually do much for Gaga in general. Shallow was a big hit, so was the movie, but it wasn't really an event. It had the same surface-level success as Joanne. (which, I would struggle to name "successful") And I don't really see Chromatica doing it for her, either. 

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Survival vs. Diamond Heart

Secret vs. A-Yo

I'd Rather Be Your Lover vs. Joanne

Don't Stop vs. John Wayne

Inside of Me vs. Dancin' in Circles

Human Nature vs. Perfect Illusion

Forbidden Love vs. Million Reasons

Love Tried to Welcome Me vs. Sinner's Prayer

Sanctuary vs. Come to Mama

Bedtime Story vs. Hey Girl

Take a Bow vs. Angel Down

Let Down Your Guard vs. Grigio Girls

Your Honesty vs. Just Another Day

Bedtime Stories is the better album. However, both albums managed to allow these ladies to segue into their movie musicals.

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Joanne easily

1 hour ago, LittleDudeNT5 said:

This is a weird comparison. I get what you're going for, but I don't think they really are on equal grounds.

 

Bedtime Stories is just a better album. I also think it revived Madonna's career chart-wise. Secret and Take A Bow were both huge successes. I think the media still wasn't treating her right (she was "behaving" a bit better, but was still being controversial, ala the Letterman appearance). But, it seemed like the GP were still onboard with her.

 

The more I think about it I guess I can kind of see the relation between BS and Joanne. Joanne has Perfect Illusion and Million Reasons, which were not as big as Secret or Take A Bow, but Joanne seemed to keep Lady Gaga in the sights of the GP, in a very shallow (ha) sort of way. It was kind of the same way with Madge during that time, I'd guess. People were still consuming her music, she just wasn't particularly popular as an act.

 

I don't think Gaga has pulled herself out of that slump yet, though. ASIB obviously was a huge hit but… idk, it just didn't seem to actually do much for Gaga in general. Shallow was a big hit, so was the movie, but it wasn't really an event. It had the same surface-level success as Joanne. (which, I would struggle to name "successful") And I don't really see Chromatica doing it for her, either. 

imagine thinking ASIB wasn't "an event" laughcry1 "same surface-level success as Joanne" laughcry1 omg....no words

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41 minutes ago, Merryem said:

Joanne easily

imagine thinking ASIB wasn't "an event" laughcry1 "same surface-level success as Joanne" laughcry1 omg....no words

ASIB was a very successful film, but it wasn't huge like a pop-star-driven film could be (like Titanic or The Bodyguard, two obvious examples, but they hold up). It's a fourth-time remake, ffs. Even if we want to call it "an event", it and it's music will likely fade from most people's interest or memory when they think of Gaga. Shallow was a hit, but people forget hits all the time. Maybe you had a different experience/your social circle was different, but ASIB came and went fairly quickly, other than Shallow being heard on the radio for a few months. Even then, it wasn't a song people were consumed with.

 

As for your quote of "same surface-level success as Joanne" – don't know if that's meant to be a response to me saying Joanne was surface-level or that ASIB had the same surface level success. Joanne was certainly only surface level success, but maybe it's not correct to say ASIB was the same. ASIB would certainly have better chances at being remembered. 

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3 minutes ago, LittleDudeNT5 said:

ASIB was a very successful film, but it wasn't huge like a pop-star-driven film could be (like Titanic or The Bodyguard, two obvious examples, but they hold up). It's a fourth-time remake, ffs. Even if we want to call it "an event", it and it's music will likely fade from most people's interest or memory when they think of Gaga. Shallow was a hit, but people forget hits all the time. Maybe you had a different experience/your social circle was different, but ASIB came and went fairly quickly, other than Shallow being heard on the radio for a few months. Even then, it wasn't a song people were consumed with.

 

As for your quote of "same surface-level success as Joanne" – don't know if that's meant to be a response to me saying Joanne was surface-level or that ASIB had the same surface level success. Joanne was certainly only surface level success, but maybe it's not correct to say ASIB was the same. ASIB would certainly have better chances at being remembered. 

comparing it to titanic and the bodyguard are already huge achievements, given that they're two of the biggest films in american cinema -- also titanic was not pop star driven lol, celine singing the soundtrack is worlds apart from whitney/gaga starring in the movie and singing the soundtrack.

 

the idea of what "an event" is or what "will fade from people's interests or memory" is incredibly subjective and could be applied to basically anything our faves have done...shallow and a star is born were both worldwide phenomenons. i would even say that the gp probably thinks of a star is born more than anything else nowadays when they think of gaga, it exposed her to a completely new demographic and garnered incredible acclaim and success. a star is born is an era any of our faves would kill for nowadays. joanne is the spirit indestructible compared to it.

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1 minute ago, Merryem said:

comparing it to titanic and the bodyguard are already huge achievements, given that they're two of the biggest films in american cinema -- also titanic was not pop star driven lol, celine singing the soundtrack is worlds apart from whitney/gaga starring in the movie and singing the soundtrack.

 

the idea of what "an event" is or what "will fade from people's interests or memory" is incredibly subjective and could be applied to basically anything our faves have done...shallow and a star is born were both worldwide phenomenons. i would even say that the gp probably thinks of a star is born more than anything else nowadays when they think of gaga, it exposed her to a completely new demographic and garnered incredible acclaim and success. a star is born is an era any of our faves would kill for nowadays. joanne is the spirit indestructible compared to it.

1) Uh, no. I'm just pulling some "events" pop stars had with movies as examples of what ASIB was not. The comparison just means it's in the same relative category.

2) No, it's not the same. But, what I meant was that Celine and Titanic had a successful symbiotic relationship in the way that Bodyguard did for Whitney. Whitney was in the movie, and the movie was a huge success along with the soundtrack. Celine wasn't in the movie, obviously, but both the song and the movie achieved massive success because of their relation to one another. This is something that could have (or did, arguably) with Shallow + ASIB. What I mean to say is that, like Bodyguard, no one really thinks of ASIB when they hear Shallow, but Shallow/ASIB didn't have the same impact as The Bodyguard or IWALY. Like I said before, Shallow is hardly on the tips of anyone's tongues all the time, and ASIB is an old story that everyone's seen and felt before. 

3) This is true. I don't agree that they were "phenomenons", and I don't really believe that Gaga was pulling in all that more people. I'm not saying these weren't successes – it's the most success Gaga has had since 2013, or earlier, even. It just felt very passable to me, and the success it garnered was just seasonal. Obviously this is an argument about its "impact" and it's lack of status as an "event", and I can concede that is pretty subjective. I personally believe you're giving it a lot more credit than it will achieve retrospectively.

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Survival vs. Diamond Heart

Secret vs. A-Yo

I'd Rather Be Your Lover vs. Joanne

Don't Stop vs. John Wayne

Inside of Me vs. Dancin' in Circles

Human Nature vs. Perfect Illusion

Forbidden Love vs. Million Reasons

Love Tried to Welcome Me vs. Sinner's Prayer

Sanctuary vs. Come to Mama

Bedtime Story vs. Hey Girl

Take a Bow vs. Angel Down

Let Down Your Guard vs. Grigio Girls

Your Honesty vs. Just Another Day

imnothingwithoutasteadyhand.gif

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This is such a strange comparison, even with the "damage control" parameters. I mean if we're being really, really honest here both albums are weaker efforts from both women. As an overall product I'd say Bedtime Stories is more effective but on an individual, song by song basis (the songs on their own), I'd go for more songs on Joanne than Bedtime Stories. Anyway here goes. 

 

Survival vs. Diamond Heart

Secret vs. A-Yo

I'd Rather Be Your Lover vs. Joanne

Don't Stop vs. John Wayne

Inside of Me vs. Dancin' in Circles

Human Nature vs. Perfect Illusion

Forbidden Love vs. Million Reasons

Love Tried to Welcome Me vs. Sinner's Prayer

Sanctuary vs. Come to Mama

Bedtime Story vs. Hey Girl

Take a Bow vs. Angel Down

Let Down Your Guard vs. Grigio Girls

Your Honesty vs. Just Another Day

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17 minutes ago, LittleDudeNT5 said:

1) Uh, no. I'm just pulling some "events" pop stars had with movies as examples of what ASIB was not. The comparison just means it's in the same relative category.

2) No, it's not the same. But, what I meant was that Celine and Titanic had a successful symbiotic relationship in the way that Bodyguard did for Whitney. Whitney was in the movie, and the movie was a huge success along with the soundtrack. Celine wasn't in the movie, obviously, but both the song and the movie achieved massive success because of their relation to one another. This is something that could have (or did, arguably) with Shallow + ASIB. What I mean to say is that, like Bodyguard, no one really thinks of ASIB when they hear Shallow, but Shallow/ASIB didn't have the same impact as The Bodyguard or IWALY. Like I said before, Shallow is hardly on the tips of anyone's tongues all the time, and ASIB is an old story that everyone's seen and felt before. 

3) This is true. I don't agree that they were "phenomenons", and I don't really believe that Gaga was pulling in all that more people. I'm not saying these weren't successes – it's the most success Gaga has had since 2013, or earlier, even. It just felt very passable to me, and the success it garnered was just seasonal. Obviously this is an argument about its "impact" and it's lack of status as an "event", and I can concede that is pretty subjective. I personally believe you're giving it a lot more credit than it will achieve retrospectively.

dead2 i'll just agree to disagree.

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Erotica nearly ended Madonna's career. Artpop was just a flop. However, Bedtime Stories and Joanne are sort of similar in terms of damage control in that the project kept the pop star afloat.

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I get the comparison: Image-softening, conventional albums that were followed by a movie.
 

Bedtime Stories gave Madonna her longest-running US #1 Hit and Secret peaked at #3. The other two singles didn’t do as well but gave us two of her best videos of all time. But even more so, I‘ll Remember already did a great job at winning the GP back. It peaked at #2 and is actually one of her most successful US singles. You‘ll See also further contributed to it. Evita and Madonna being pregnant with her first child really sealed the deal. Additionally, Ray of Light is simply her best album. It all sort of...worked? Good timing overall.

Joanne was actually more destructive than anything. It wasn’t a somewhat natural progression but rather pretentious. She abandoned the image that made her standout in the first place and tried to win a fanbase that just wouldn’t prove to be loyal or interested enough. Perfect Illusion flopped and Million Discounts did too apart from that one week with the SuperBowl push. Oh and that SuperBowl show was just so plain and boring for her. ASIB was a hit but there are way more factors that played a role in that movie‘s success. Shallow isn’t a particularly great song and it was the Bradley/Gaga shipping that sold it. Chromatica had a bumpy start with Stupid Love and Rain on Me and Sour Candy are the only songs doing numbers (mostly due to the features). 
 

Last but not least, Bedtime Story and Joanne are both ridden by a good bunch of fillers but BS is easily the better album/era.

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17 hours ago, Luca said:

Madonna stans: Stop comparing Gaga to Madonna, such a disgrace!

Also Madonna stans: 

She's living in y'alls heads rentfree! 

hg3Wqce.gif

huh? 

I was just trying to turn the conversation into a musical one since all we get here is shady, trolling threads but go off  I guess. laughcry1

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