Why does Ariana still feel like a flash in the pan?

[Strobo 2,308]

15 hours ago, melomelo said:

the videos where you point out beyonces ability to glide through her registers (glissando) are not applicable to my argument. beyonce glides through each register individually, note to note- this is glissando. i am referring to mariah transitioning from register into register, tonality/texture of voice changes- this is passagio. and this is what i was referring too. glissandos are more applicable to key changes which aren't what i was referring too. the mastery of passagio is dependent upon access to those registers and training you have received that allows you to access them.

beyonce most often mixes her voice to reach higher notes instead of transitioning from register into register, she has not mastered the passagio to the extent mariah carey has. mariah carey in her early days only mixed her voice for belting purposes, but she mastered the passagio of her registers.  often times when singers in pop music have a hard time reaching a note in another register they "mix" voices. this means they shift the placement of their breath support forcefully into another part of their voice, this is not practiced or recommended because its essentially "pushing" that part of the voice to exert force it is not designed to do. this is common practice is pop music, it is not allowed in opera. this is why opera has a voice class system.

what i meant by beyonce would croak trying to perform the transitions mariah does are because beyonce resorts to mixing her voice in order to reach the notes in her higher registers. mariah did not do this until her later years. 

for the sake of being on the same page and so everyone knows there are 4 registers (from highest to lowest): whistle, falsetto, modular, fry. there is overlap between them, but for the most part people can tell them apart.  the confusion comes from the modular voice because this houses the head voice, middle voice, and chest voice. and further confusion because fry is technically never used in opera or in pop music and if it used its to refer to the lowest notes. so onto my clarification. 

let me start by pointing out some things in a couple videos for comparison. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5BnYX_xOiI

4:44 passagio from modular into low/fry. very effortless and seamless. same passagio at 5:53,  6:19, and 7:52

5:55 passagio from modular into falsetto. this passagio is distinctly stark because falsetto changes the tonality of the voice.

side note: holy shit the perfect harmonies at 6:30. wow. 

6:55 passagio from middle voice into head voice. notice how this difference is not as stark as the change from modular into falsetto. she retains the same tonality but the pitch is different. this is a defining characteristic of a good passagio- slight pitch alteration but overall consistent tonality. 

8:08 passagio from modular voice to head voice. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4abd6m71hk

0:31 to 0:35 is glissando. 0:36 passagio from middle voice into fry.

1:15  passagio from middle voice into whistle. this is insane. she skipped full registers and octaves. she went from a F4/G4 to  F#6/Gb6. this is a 2 octave jump. skipped head voice, falsetto, straight into the middle of the 6th fucking octave. if you think beyonce could do this, she can't. i dont even think if it was scaled for her range. 

2:04 against passagio and well over a 2 octave jump since she was lower than the F4 from before. 

3:39 had to look this up cause i thought it was staccato, but its called arpeggio. 

lets look at a song from beyonce that has a comparable tempo and rhythm to vision of love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klDAN-Ky6SM

1:50 doesnt perform passagio from middle voice to head voice to hit the E5. mixing and she is kind of screaming almost. 

2:22 she does perform it here. i will assume she didnt do it before because she was dancing. 

2:43 passagio from middle voice to falsetto.

in this video and the video you used. she resorts to falsetto a lot. falsetto is the easiest voice type you can use to sing high notes because it doesn't utilize a lot of the muscles in your vocal chords. she gets leniency because she was dancing.

now to a song with a higher key:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pai1C2dsd3M

1:24 passagio from middle voice to head voice

2:17 did she fall flat? or is it just me?

2:29 dodges the note. i think the original is an E5/F5. im too tired to look it up. it is in the E vowel, but regardless she is standing and not dancing. 

she has great pitch. but she strains wayy too much to hit the higher notes. especially in the 5th octave. examples: 2:01, 2:16, 2:22, 2;27, now i know this is stylistic but its bordering on christina's growly theatrics. because at 2:46 she hits a fabulous note without all that growly shit. 

mariah carey mastered the 5th and 6th octave. its not about range, its about mastering your voice. beyonce has not. there are multiple videos where she dodges notes, growls to get through high parts, and other questionable things. mariah didnt do this during her prime. and unfortunately if you want to sing a mariah carey song you better come well prepared and well equipped. if beyonce doesn't have the range and the mastery she would never be able to sing a mariah carey song. her hitting the majority of the notes doesn't count. people on american diol wouldn't get a pass so she shouldn't either. 

ariana grande has a range that is comparable to mariah's and she uses the whistle register well enough she can cover almost all of mariah's songs, except a couple of the low parts. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjzENV7rhhI

listening to her cover of emotions its clear to see she has studied mariah carey to a t. thats why she almost sounds like her. 

her passagios are great. she performs the 2 octave jump. kudos to little miss ari.

ok i am done. i had to look a lot of this shit up. ugh i hated singing class. 

A very solid clocking of my statements, but I also did misunderstand what you meant lol.

 

I wasn't aware you meant transitions as in octave jumps, as opposed to transitions such as between registers which Beyoncé has no issues doing. I don't think much of anyone could handle Emotions ((and I wouldn't give Ariana credit on the Emotions whistles from a studio recording, where I've heard so many rumors about them being edited))

 

This also does come off very mezzo bad, soprano good but it's kind of the truth when it comes to not only contemporary singing, but Opera as well.

 

All in all, a well written analysis with my only critcisms being you using passagio to refer to jumps between their ranges and not the SPECIFIC region of their voices which they switch between registers naturally, and a nitpick about how you described each register without just linking them to laryngeal mechanisms (M0-M3).

 

While I still don't personally think Ariana outclasses Beyoncé as a singer (her upper range, while easily accessed is full of tension, and lacks presence, her vocal runs are kind of messy, her enunciation is very poor...) I can wholeheartedly agree that Ariana can do things with her voice that Beyoncé cannot (but also vice versa), and Beyoncé is way overpraised by the hive.

 

Now if Ariana kept up with the Broadway style she had when she was younger? Without a doubt she would be up there! She's just chosen style over technique the same way Christina has and well, it is what it is.

[melomelo 266]

48 minutes ago, Strobo said:

A very solid clocking of my statements, but I also did misunderstand what you meant lol.

 

I wasn't aware you meant transitions as in octave jumps, as opposed to transitions such as between registers which Beyoncé has no issues doing. I don't think much of anyone could handle Emotions ((and I wouldn't give Ariana credit on the Emotions whistles from a studio recording, where I've heard so many rumors about them being edited))

 

This also does come off very mezzo bad, soprano good but it's kind of the truth when it comes to not only contemporary singing, but Opera as well.

 

All in all, a well written analysis with my only critcisms being you using passagio to refer to jumps between their ranges and not the SPECIFIC region of their voices which they switch between registers naturally, and a nitpick about how you described each register without just linking them to laryngeal mechanisms (M0-M3).

 

While I still don't personally think Ariana outclasses Beyoncé as a singer (her upper range, while easily accessed is full of tension, and lacks presence, her vocal runs are kind of messy, her enunciation is very poor...) I can wholeheartedly agree that Ariana can do things with her voice that Beyoncé cannot (but also vice versa), and Beyoncé is way overpraised by the hive.

 

Now if Ariana kept up with the Broadway style she had when she was younger? Without a doubt she would be up there! She's just chosen style over technique the same way Christina has and well, it is what it is.

i tried not to get too technical with this. i, myself stated i dont really understand vocal pedagogy theory very well because its very very VERY involved and intricate. i took 2 semesters of vocal pedagogy with an old russian opera singer who kept calling me a wanna be pop star. she was extremely picky and would only tell me i was wrong but not correct what i was doing wrong. if that makes sense. so i dont have confidence in this subject matter. i tried to stay away from using technical terms. as i stated old school opera singers and trained pedagogy experts constantly dispute things like voice classifications and registers. if they arent certain on this stuff, shit, im obviously not any better.

when it comes to technique beyonce is one of the best currently. um technique is how properly you use your voice without straining and potentially damaging your vocal chords. others i can think of with great technique are gaga- not surprising she is a theatre singer. tory kelly is also really good. kelly clarkson is horrible. thats why she has lost a lot of her vocal ability. carrie underwood is also great.

100% agree about ariana.